Get Some
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Bounty Hunter on January 24, 2013, 04:11:09 pm
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As we know, Whales are awesome (http://www.getsome.co.nz/showthread.php?26936-What-s-cooler-Elephants-or-Whales) and dolphins closely related, the motorcycle form of a whale, are awesome also.
So why the fuck do we need to pay a bunch of savages to stop killing them?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/8218747/Row-leads-to-dolphin-slaughter
Do they not understand that if they kill off the dolphins, it'll be worse than not having 1.7 million NZD because you wont have anything and you will die.
I think we need to start nuclear testing in the Solomons.
Fuck Gareth Morgan and his Ailurophobia
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fuck . stupid oxygen thieves . cut the fuckholes and feed them to the sharks .
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Disgraceful bunch of heathens!
and some are always blaming the Japs. Without civilized intervention those motherfuckers would turn the place into a Pacific Zimbabwe
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[url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/south-pacific/8218747/Row-leads-to-dolphin-slaughter[/url][/URL]
Do they not understand that if they kill off the dolphins, it'll be worse than not having 1.7 million NZD because you wont have anything and you will die
The simply response is - no they don't understand.
They have been doing something for a very long time and given the amount that they kill and the size of the solomin island population, I dare say that the amount would be negligable.
Along comes the western world - rapes and pillages resources and now suddenly (through little to no fault of the Solomon Islanders) Dolphins are now endangered.
Along comes the Western world and tells the Solomon Islanders, that something they have done for a long time is now a threat to the species and needs to stop. Since the dolphins were a source of food and income, they offer to compensate them so that they don't kill the dolphins.
They didn't pay up, they now need to kill dolphins for food/income - and we are mad at the Islanders?
If anything, we should be rebuking the tight asses who underpaid the Islanders in the first place (shades of the old colonial attitude of 'lets screw the Natives'?). Were it not a bunch of natives they were dealing with, but a big corporate entity, I doubt this would have happened or if it did, the lawyers would have been sueing them over a breach of contract.
or we should be rebuking the industries that have led to the decline of the dolphin in the first place?
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They didn't pay up, they now need to kill dolphins for food/income - and we are mad at the Islanders?
If anything, we should be rebuking the tight asses who underpaid the Islanders in the first place (shades of the old colonial attitude of 'lets screw the Natives'?). Were it not a bunch of natives they were dealing with, but a big corporate entity, I doubt this would have happened or if it did, the lawyers would have been sueing them over a breach of contract.
or we should be rebuking the industries that have led to the decline of the dolphin in the first place?
Negligible income considering the taboo around purchasing endangered species parts, I would walk out of the house of a person who proudly displayed their dolphin jaw collection. Negligible food, there's plenty other fish in the sea, other island nations have managed to get by without it?
Also it's said they paid them out the 2.4 mill but it sounds like one of the savages has pocketed most of it and buggered off, wouldn't surprise me.
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Negligible income considering the taboo around purchasing endangered species parts, I would walk out of the house of a person who proudly displayed their dolphin jaw collection. Negligible food, there's plenty other fish in the sea, other island nations have managed to get by without it?
Also it's said they paid them out the 2.4 mill but it sounds like one of the savages has pocketed most of it and buggered off, wouldn't surprise me.
Negligible food and income are relative.
What I consider negligible would equate to a Kings Salary and banquet to a native of the 3rd world.
I concede your comment about the possibility of a Native stealing the money and running off (hell I would contemplate doing a runner if someone gave me 2 Million...) but then - if they were paying the money to one individual directly, that does strike me as somewhat 'naive'
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Negligible food and income are relative.
What I consider negligible would equate to a Kings Salary and banquet to a native of the 3rd world.
I concede your comment about the possibility of a Native stealing the money and running off (hell I would contemplate doing a runner if someone gave me 2 Million...) but then - if they were paying the money to one individual directly, that does strike me as somewhat 'naive'
I figured that because someone didn't get all the money it probably made it to the country intact, but then when it was divided out to the individual islands/towns/tribes it went missing.
I still think murder of 900 dolphins is a bit extreme and shows how dumb these people are. (I dolt like using the term "dumb", but I haven't time to think of a better term, maybe ignorant?)
Speaking of dumb though I had a friend doing mechanical, he had an assignment where they had to design a tap for the solomons that didn't fail and could be used without instruction because the average Solomon islander was too poorly educated to work out how a regular tap works let alone repair one.
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I thought something seemed suspicious about this whole thing. Who do they sell the dolphin bits to?
http://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/elist/eListRead/solomon_islands_dolphin_kill_spurred_by_corrupt_dolphin_traders/
Solomon Islands’ Dolphin Kill Spurred by Corrupt Dolphin Traders, Says Animal Rights Group
A group of villagers in the Solomon Islands in Oceana captured and killed over 1,000 dolphins this week in the worst dolphin massacre in the region in recent years.
Photo by John Norton
IMMP says that dolphin traders, who can make as much as $150,000 per dolphin sold to
aquariums and marine parks in China, the Middle East, and the Caribbean, may have
helped sabotage their conservation efforts.
The killings occurred in two spates — the first on Monday, when 700 dolphins including about 240 calves were killed, and the second yesterday that led to the death of 300 more dolphins.
The initial slaughter triggered off a spate of news reports in Australian and New Zealand media that said that the slaughter was in protest against International Marine Mammal Project’s (IMMP) failure to pay up funds promised to the villagers to help support sustainable development without dolphin kills.
The reports relied on allegations made by Fanalei Association chairman Atkin Fakaia who claims that IMMP hadn’t paid up the full amount it had promised and that the villagers had on option but to resume killing in order to survive.
IMMP rubbishes this allegation.
It says the dolphins were killed by a break-away band of villagers from South Malaita’s Fanalei village. The rest of the people of the three villages — Fanalei, Walende, and Bitamae — that the project had reached agreement with back in 2010 were not involved in the killings, it said in a statement. (Full disclosure: IMMP is a project of Earth Island Institute, which is also the publisher of Earth Island Journal.)
“The sudden decision to kill dolphins lies with a disparate group from one community, Fanalei, who broke from the consensus we have built around ending the dolphin killing," the statement said. “Many in this very community we helped are furious over these renegades."
Fanalei chief Willson Filei, who had helped strike the deal with IMMP, condemned the killings. “The Honiara based committee was only formed when they learn that money was actually coming in. They refused and discourage us at the first place,” he told the local daily Solomon Star. “But when money came in they tried to push their way in. They then messed up the whole project and encourage villagers to return to hunt. I wash my hands from this recent string of slaughter.”
Killing dolphins for their meat and teeth, which is also used as currency on some of these islands, has been a traditional practice in these islands. But in recent years villagers have also been capturing dolphins to sell to international traders who supply the mammals to dolphinariums across the world.
IMMP, which has been fighting for decades to end marine mammal slaughter and stop captive whale and dolphin trade, brokered an agreement with the three villages in 2010. “The agreement effectively stopped the killing of dolphins more than 2,000 dolphins a year by these three villages,” said IMMP associate director Mark Berman. The resumption of killings is a sad setback to the project’s conservation efforts.
“It is tragic that the renegade group has broken this consensus and started killing dolphins again,” Berman said. IMMP has been providing these villages with funding for infrastructure rebuilding, paying schools fees for children, and helping villagers develop alternative employment opportunities.
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And where did the millions go?
http://www.care2.com/causes/900-dolphins-killed-in-solomon-islands.html#13595180993091&action=collapse_widget&id=3494063
The islanders have aired their concerns about Earth Island Institute on Radio Australia, says the Guardian. Residents of Fanalei say that the conservation group had only paid a third of the promised funds. As a result, “disillusioned” villagers have returned to hunting. Atkin Fakaia, a community leader, says flat-out that “Earth Island had been reluctant to pay the agreed amount that was due to the community.”
For its part, Earth Island claims that the issue is more complex. David Phillips, who oversees international dolphin protection efforts for the group, alleges that a “renegade group” based in the capital of Honiara has “grabbed1 funds that were supposed to go to the community” and not distributed them. The funds were supposed to be paid as small grants for community and “income generating projects” specifically in the village of Fanalei.
Nyack C.
6:29PM PST on Jan 29, 2013
Misunderstand? More like animal terrorists. They held dolphins hostage and killed them when they didn't recieve money.
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I still think murder of 900 dolphins is a bit extreme and shows how dumb these people are. (I dolt like using the term "dumb", but I haven't time to think of a better term, maybe ignorant?)
I'm assuming they then used the dolphins for food etc?
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what about the millions they were making before the pay out?
$150,000 per dolphin times 2000 dolphins a year is 300 million dollars a year going?
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what about the millions they were making before the pay out?
$150,000 per dolphin times 2000 dolphins a year is 300 million dollars a year going?
This is actually more interesting than it looks. This is for the LIVE sale of dolphins.
If the Islanders kill 900 dolphins that is $135,000,000.
$1,700,000 seems pittance in comparison.
HOWEVER: There is 0 chance of selling 900 dolphins. The market just wouldnt stand for it. Plus it is mostly illegal.
Therefore it looks like someone convinced the islanders that they were missing out on a huge amount of money, then that same someone took all the money that was meant to be given to the islanders before telling the islanders that they 'hadnt been given the money'.
Apparently they kill 500 - 1500 dolphins a year anyway and the uproar is about an agreement with the payment to not kill dolphins.
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I also heard some islander guy ate a dog.
Why can't other cultures just be normal and civilized and setup elaborate killing systems that slaughter millions of baby sheep and celebrate the tastyness of pig like the rest of us.
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Isn't there a similar thing still going on with seals (whales?) in Iceland?
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Isn't there a similar thing still going on with seals (whales?) in Iceland?
Seals are not whales.
How you could confused the two? One has wings and flys, and the other runs around in tunnels underground.
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Seals are not whales.
How you could confused the two? One has wings and flys, and the other runs around in tunnels underground.
Fuck me - Flying whales would be awesome
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Isn't there a similar thing still going on with seals (whales?) in Iceland?
Seals are not whales.
How you could confused the two? One has wings and flys, and the other runs around in tunnels underground.
Winter is not wrong here, he has just mixed up the Scandanavian countries.
The Faroe Islands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faroe_islands) of Denmark kill dolphins, but they do it for the dolphin meat. They dont do it for money like these scummy islanders
It is also quite regulated the wikipedia page about dolphin drive hunting in the faroe islands doesnt say much about the killing of dolphins.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_the_Faroe_Islands
BUT, the ever reliable snopes does:
http://www.snopes.com/photos/hunting/dolphinhunt.asp
We don't yet know the specific origins of the photographs displayed above, but they're consistent with other documentation of the hunting of pilot whales by residents of the Faroe Islands (an autonomous province of Denmark), a subject which has long been a subject of controversy. Although the International Whaling Commission enacted a ban on commercial whaling since 1986, pilot whales are technically a member of the dolphin family, and the Faroe Islands is one of the parts of the world where the IWC's rules still allowed for subsistence hunting of such small cetaceans
Supporters of the hunt maintain that the practice of killing pilot whales is "an age-old communal, noncommercial hunt aimed at meeting the community's need for whale meat and blubber," that the animals are dealt with so quickly that their pain is brief, and that whale meat accounts for a quarter of the Faroe islanders' annual meat consumption. Conservationists charge that the hunts, which may take hundreds of whales at a time, are barbaric and pointless, that "the practice is outdated, cruel and unnecessary for a place with one of the highest standards of living in Europe," and that most of the whales go to waste (either being left on the beach to rot or thrown back to sea after they are killed.
In late 2008, chief medical officers of the Faroe Islands advised that they no longer considered pilot whales to be fit for human consumption because the animals' meat and blubber had been found to contain too much mercury, PCBs and DDT derivatives.
edit: Oh yeah, warning. The snopes site has pictures of mass dolphin slaughter that might disturb. So I guess NSFW
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Seals are not whales.
How you could confused the two? One has wings and flys, and the other runs around in tunnels underground.
I thought it was either one, not that Seals are whales haha .. It's TOO EARLY FOR THIS SM!
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Kill dolphins
Fuck bitches
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In that order?
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I also heard some islander guy ate a dog.
Why can't other cultures just be normal and civilized and setup elaborate killing systems that slaughter millions of baby sheep and celebrate the tastyness of pig like the rest of us.
well we carefully control the birth and death rate of livestock, and they're isolated in a farm, soooo if thry made a sea farm for whales and dolphins that'd be great, totally impractical but that's not my problem.
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I also heard some islander guy ate a dog.
Why can't other cultures just be normal and civilized and setup elaborate killing systems that slaughter millions of baby sheep and celebrate the tastyness of pig like the rest of us.
well we carefully control the birth and death rate of livestock, and they're isolated in a farm, soooo if thry made a sea farm for whales and dolphins that'd be great, totally impractical but that's not my problem.
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well we carefully control the birth and death rate of livestock, and they're isolated in a farm, soooo if thry made a sea farm for whales and dolphins that'd be great, totally impractical but that's not my problem.
Agree with this.
Sheep and Cows have no danger of becoming endangerd, because we don't eat wild cows, they're farmed. Can't compare the consumption of livestock to wild animals like whales and dolphins.
Hunting wild animals is usally not a sustainable source of food.
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Hunting wild animals is usally not a sustainable source of food.
How long have they been hunting dolphins?
I bet it has been sustainable for them for along time.
Bottle nosed dolphins are also not endangered, so I think this is more to do with your feelings that dolphins are cool than anything else.
If some villagers killed 3000 wild boar would you give a shit?
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Of couse, everything is to do with my feelings.
Dolphins are cool.
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They best be carefull, sooner or later they'll catch one of those Navy trained dolphins which freakin lasers attched to their flippers.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/NMMP_dolphin_with_locator.jpeg/399px-NMMP_dolphin_with_locator.jpeg)
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How long have they been hunting dolphins?
I bet it has been sustainable for them for along time.
Bottle nosed dolphins are also not endangered, so I think this is more to do with your feelings that dolphins are cool than anything else.
If some villagers killed 3000 wild boar would you give a shit?
And their population would have increased, and their needs have obviously changed (money) where it would have once been very sustainable for a small group of islands to hunt dolphins, even on a global scale with the Japanese, Scandinavians, etc hunting them using traditional methods for real survival, then sure it would have been sustainable, but the slaughter of over 1000 dolphins on a point on the globe is not sustainable, it will also encourage other communities to hunt them too, and this isn't survival now it's actual greed (1.7 million went missing, don't tell me it's not about greed), so while the bottle nose isn't endangered, if we let them keep this up, they will be.
I'm not going to have my intelligence insulted, or indeed insult your intelligence with the differences between boars and dolphins, but 3000 people are slaughtered a day, why don't we have a thread on that? (oh religion thread - nevermind)
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They also need to watch out for the dolphins with fricken torpedoes strapped to their fricken undersides.
(http://rookery.s3.amazonaws.com/1067000/1067484_00a8_625x1000.jpg)
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We seem to justify killing in bulk by removing their ability to have a life in the first place.
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We seem to justify farming/killing in bulk by removing their ability to have a life in the first place.
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We seem to justify farming/killing in bulk by removing their ability to have a life in the first place.
That's heavy, man.
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Most Cows seem to have a pretty good life.
At least here in NZ.
Untill they are eaten.
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well we carefully control the birth and death rate of livestock, and they're isolated in a farm, soooo if thry made a sea farm for whales and dolphins that'd be great, totally impractical but that's not my problem.
Is it any better preventing extinction if all that is left are animals we "isolate in a farm" and kill as we please?
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Is it any better preventing extinction if all that is left are animals we "isolate in a farm" and kill as we please?
compared to a life without us, yes.
imagine a person who spent every waking hour of the day making sure you were constantly standing on food, and you had no disease, no predators, big wide open spaces to wander and eat through....
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compared to a life without us, yes.
imagine a person who spent every waking hour of the day making sure you were constantly standing on food, and you had no disease, no predators, big wide open spaces to wander and eat through....
Not much different to our prisons then?
Imagine a life where the moment you are born you are kept in a cage, until the day you die.
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Is it any better preventing extinction if all that is left are animals we "isolate in a farm" and kill as we please?
Of course it is. Being alive is better then being extinct.
Lot's of animals are killed for food by other animals, that is how nature works. However the share number of humans on this planet requires us to be reasonable with our sources of food, i.e Farming, least we run out.
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big wide open spaces to wander and eat through....
Imagine a life where the moment you are born you are kept in a cage, until the day you die.
You're introducing the subject of caged farming into this. Which is a seprate discussion.
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Of course it is. Being alive is better then being extinct.
Lot's of animals are killed for food by other animals, that is how nature works. However the share number of humans on this planet requires us to be reasonable with our sources of food, i.e Farming, least we run out.
If all humans were tied up from birth and tortured constantly, would that still be better than extinction?
Yes that is how nature works, are you saying how we farm animals is "how nature works"?
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You're introducing the subject of caged farming into this. Which is a seprate discussion.
I didn't see anyone say this was only relating to wide open-space farming? Particularly in the posts I quoted/responded to.
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If all humans were tied up from birth and tortured constantly, would that still be better than extinction?
Humans havent been on the menu since 1942 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannibalism#Modern_era)
And again in 1973 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_green)
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I didn't see anyone say this was only relating to wide open-space farming? Particularly in the posts I quoted/responded to.
This is a thread about dolphins.
Why are you discussing cage farming?
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This is a thread about dolphins.
Why are you discussing cage farming?
If this is a thread about solely dolphins, why did BH mention "imagine a person who spent every waking hour of the day making sure you were constantly standing on food, and you had no disease, no predators, big wide open spaces to wander and eat through".
Does that apply to dolphins? You're not really adding anything here, and I'm obviously not talking to you anyhow.
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Dolphins are pretty smart, cows arent and taste good...
Kelly says the group was just settling in to view the magnificent giant Mantas when they saw a Bottlenose dolphin swimming toward them. While that in itself was not unusual, what caught the diver's attention was the mammal's unusual squeal. As the dolphin came close and almost pushed itself onto Kelly, he realized that it was in distress, thanks to a fishing line that had entangled around it, and was asking for help!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro4Wil09FnI
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Dolphins form life raft to help dying friend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPt-XUAPdeM
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Not much different to our prisons then?
Imagine a life where the moment you are born you are kept in a cage, until the day you die.
Yeah I'm against cage farming too.
If all humans were tied up from birth and tortured constantly, would that still be better than extinction?
Yes that is how nature works, are you saying how we farm animals is "how nature works"?
Yes.
I didn't see anyone say this was only relating to wide open-space farming? Particularly in the posts I quoted/responded to.
It's not, but the point is really poor, so you should probably abandon it and try something else, or a new angle.
If this is a thread about solely dolphins, why did BH mention "imagine a person who spent every waking hour of the day making sure you were constantly standing on food, and you had no disease, no predators, big wide open spaces to wander and eat through".
Does that apply to dolphins? You're not really adding anything here, and I'm obviously not talking to you anyhow.
The farming discussion stemmed from bell pointing out my ethical contradiction in that I view farming as ok, but not the slaughter of dolphins, where savages might view slaughter of dolphins as ok, but not farming. However his point is poorly contrived in that farming is highly controlled, and that tradition for the sake of tradition in this modern global world we live is hardly a good point to carry on doing something, especially when things have changed as I pointed out in a post above.
Dolphins do have..."a person who spent every waking hour of the day making sure you were constantly standing on food, and you had no disease, no predators, big wide open spaces to wander and eat through" except they swim and don't wander, however the problem is in the massive size of the wide open space and the ratio of people in said space looking after them to people trying to exploit them without control.
You could try pointing out that a dolphin/whale farm (which I'm all for) is a logistical nightmare and totally impractical? My retort point would of course be that I shop at a supermarket down the road for practicality sake, not in Auckland, hence defeating your point.
Oh you could point out that sheeps only rely on humans because we forced them that way, have you ever seen a wild sheep? they're fucked without us, some of them die from the sheer weight of their wool, and that natural selection ought to have kicked in a while ago and killed the sheeps off, much like natural selection ought to have kicked in a while ago and killed the dolphins off by a more dominant predator( humans)? you should try that, I can only think of a weak "but we're not animals" retort to that?
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Dolphins are pretty smart, cows arent and taste good...
Kelly says the group was just settling in to view the magnificent giant Mantas when they saw a Bottlenose dolphin swimming toward them. While that in itself was not unusual, what caught the diver's attention was the mammal's unusual squeal. As the dolphin came close and almost pushed itself onto Kelly, he realized that it was in distress, thanks to a fishing line that had entangled around it, and was asking for help!
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ro4Wil09FnI[/url]
But pigs are smart. You can train them like dogs.
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The farming discussion stemmed from bell pointing out my ethical contradiction in that I view farming as ok, but not the slaughter of dolphins, where savages might view slaughter of dolphins as ok, but not farming. However his point is poorly contrived in that farming is highly controlled, and that tradition for the sake of tradition in this modern global world we live is hardly a good point to carry on doing something, especially when things have changed as I pointed out in a post above.
Nope, I used 2 examples of animals that we kill on mass that have no problem with.
I picked lamb and pigs because lambs are babies, we kill and celebrate the taste of babies.
And I picked pigs as a counter to any dolphins are smart argument because pigs are pretty damn smart, you decided that I was talking about farming specifically and then everyone came up with great arguments about why farming is ok and hunting wild animals is not.
By the way on that note, how do you feel about fishing in general? You only ever eat farmed fish right? Not that other fish caught from trawling the oceans that kills god know how many dolphins you would never do that!
The fact you refer to other cultures as savages is pretty telling, I am certain that your whole problem here boils down to "I believe you shouldn't eat dolphins or Whales because they are cool animals" it's not about them being endangered and you are worried about them going extinct because they aren't at risk especially not from villagers.
I'm pretty sure if you were a village fisherman that and some white dude one day came along and told you that oh you shouldn't do that because it's bad you would tell him to get fucked.
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But pigs are smart. You can train them like dogs.
classical conditioning is not a sign of intelligence.
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Nope, I used 2 examples of animals that we kill on mass that have no problem with.
I picked lamb and pigs because lambs are babies, we kill and celebrate the taste of babies.
And I picked pigs as a counter to any dolphins are smart argument because pigs are pretty damn smart, you decided that I was talking about farming specifically and then everyone came up with great arguments about why farming is ok and hunting wild animals is not.
By the way on that note, how do you feel about fishing in general? You only ever eat farmed fish right? Not that other fish caught from trawling the oceans that kills god know how many dolphins you would never do that!
The fact you refer to other cultures as savages is pretty telling, I am certain that your whole problem here boils down to "I believe you shouldn't eat dolphins or Whales because they are cool animals" it's not about them being endangered and you are worried about them going extinct because they aren't at risk especially not from villagers.
I'm pretty sure if you were a village fisherman that and some white dude one day came along and told you that oh you shouldn't do that because it's bad you would tell him to get fucked.
Oh, well the problem with that is that lamb isn't really lamb (especially the shit in the supermarket, it's usually hogget) but lambs aren't the cute wee fellas you see in the fields playing king of the castle.
Pigs aren't smart like dolphins.
Plus both are controlled.
Cant afford fish, when I can I catch my own salmon or trout with a license or buy it from the mt cook salmon farms (which is controlled)
I know (I believe nothing - faith is knowing you're wrong but doing it anyway) you shouldn't eat dolphins or Whales because they are truly intelligent animals, I think they deserve better and I feel we can learn so much from them, even stuff like space travel and how we might communicate with an alien race, I think the idea of having a conversation, however simple, with a dolphin is fascinating and there is real research in this area, I could have been a marine biologist if it weren't for 4th form science taking samples of crabs at portobello.
I use the word savages because they are, they live in squalor, their government is corrupt and they're poorly educated, their women are basically slaves, they haven't made the step into industrialisation. By definition they are savages, the fact they still hunt dolphin is proof, my people (the English) hunted dolphin and whale, but someone came along and point out how bad it was and we stopped? why cant they? too stupid.
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No pigs aren't as smart as dolphins but they are smarter than cats and about the same as dogs.
So wheres the line?
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Intelligence (in relation to human intelligence) is the determining factor in whether its OK to eat an animal?
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Well either that or cuteness, you draw an arbitary line in the sand based on whatever critiea is best for you and then condemn loudly all of those who kill animals above it.
My lines are delicousness and level of supply.
Personally I think this could all be solved by breeding mentally retarded dolphins.
Also
4th form science taking samples of crabs at portobello.
They made me fucking do that and I grew up in Invercargill, we went on a fucking bus for 2-3 hours just for those stupid crabs.
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I doubt the environmental impact from these people killing dolphins holds a candle to what we probably consume or utilise before breakfast.
Yes, things are qualitatively different but when the cause is a short-term-focus, and a massive societies all looking to expand their economy off the back of fossil fuels with little or no regard to water, air and every other natural resource what's the difference?
Certain practices across the world are simply unsustainable at current levels; TDL's right these people probably could continue this practice if other things were scaled back. But there's a real danger of them causing irreversible environmental damage if they don't take notice of what's going on around them. It could have titanic implications for them in the future - they may not ever again have the opportunity to retain those cultural if dolphins are over-fished. But at the same time, we have no moral basis for judging their cultural practices. If you feel uncomfortable, or if you feel enraged, or if you feel saddened by what the Solomon Islanders are doing - you ought to think about what you're doing about your own levels of consumption here at home.
Of course collective-action is going to be necessary in this challenge, but the individual is champion in 'Western' worlds - so if you're going to enjoy all the luxuries of your expansive 1st world democratic freedom, and all the choice that comes with it; you can't deny your ability to re-shape your own lifestyle.
Lead by example.
/self-indulgent rant.
edit: I'm not saying something shouldn't be 'done' about what's going on here, but I'm sure the best people to sort it out will be the Solomon Islanders themselves - I just don't think the nastier sentiment expressed in some posts (deserving oxygen or not etc) is valid at all, not necessarily because of the snarkiness, but because it doesn't stand to reason considering our own practices.
Most Cows seem to have a pretty good life.
At least here in NZ.
Untill they are eaten.
I'm not a farmer, but I'm guessing that there's more dairy cows in New Zealand than beef cows. I don't know if you could say dairy cows have a good life.
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edit: I'm not saying something shouldn't be 'done' about what's going on here, but I'm sure the best people to sort it out will be the Solomon Islanders themselves - I just don't think the nastier sentiment expressed in some posts (deserving oxygen or not etc) is valid at all, not necessarily because of the snarkiness, but because it doesn't stand to reason considering our own practices.
Well put
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No pigs aren't as smart as dolphins but they are smarter than cats and about the same as dogs.
So wheres the line?
dolphins, whales, chimpanzees, and other primates where possible.
and octopus, but that's blatantly because they're just cool.
This is sounding a lot like a get high conversation.
"dude....dude....what's the most intelligent animal that you would eat?'
Hori Rant
Dairy cows get a better life than a beef cow, cause beef cows get killed for meat?
I agree with hori, except the solomon islanders cant sort it out for themselves, they honestly don't have the education for it. The fact that religion is still so rife there alone suggests they're still living in the mid 17th century.
Intelligence (in relation to human intelligence) is the determining factor in whether its OK to eat an animal?
Not eat, kill.
Why is it not ok to kill a human? cause it's a sentient being.
While I realise dolphins aren't by definition sentient, there is strong evidence to show they are.
Personally I think this could all be solved by breeding mentally retarded dolphins.
Or just a sea farm?
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Those people have been living on the Solomons for a very long time, I place a great deal of faith in their ability to determine the best course of action in location they have an intimate knowledge of.
Of course there's benefits to be had by trading information and scientific research with them, which will help inform both the world view and their own.
But if you're calling for intervention - where from? who has the mandate to do that? The UN might be a good model, but it requires buy-in from each state - you can't effective police the world without an equal approach. Certainly not NZ; particularly when you also mention opposition to Gareth Morgan's campaign (for it's faults, he's brought an important issue to the fore - one we have otherwise wanted to avoid).
Don't think species' extinction isn't a problem in this country? Yeah right.
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No pigs aren't as smart as dolphins but they are smarter than cats and about the same as dogs.
So wheres the line?
Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous, you'd have to farm other animals just to feed them in order to eat them, which is a bit pointless.
Pigs don't need to eat meat, so they are more efficent to farm.
Plus the taste super good.
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Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous, you'd have to farm other animals just to feed them in order to eat them, which is a bit pointless.
Pigs don't need to eat meat, so they are more efficent to farm.
Plus the taste super good.
If I start farming dogs in NZ so I can eat them, regardless of the practicality, I'm sure New Zealanders will be be perfectly OK with that and won't start foaming at the mouth at all. Afterwards they'll wank on about how amazing bacon is.
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Those videos were pretty cool hopefully someone else watched them :P
Are you a vegetarian 5loth? I enjoy my meat too much to really care about the animals themselves. It comes neatly packaged at the super so I dont need to think about the animal. However, I still easily make jugemental calls about peoples treatment of other animals, and people that eat animals that I think they shouldnt. I dont really care about most, its just the cute or endangered ones that get my going. I trust that there are laws / bodies to ensure the animals that I eat were treated alright before I ate them. I give $20 a year to green peace, and $50 to Sea Sheperd and sleep easy :)
I do think people are going to create to much of a strain on the natural world soon, theres just too many of us!
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The fact that religion is still so rife there alone suggests they're still living in the mid 17th century.
I dont know if serious...thats the worst call ever...
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I don't know if you could say dairy cows have a good life.
dafaq?
Get fed as much as possible so as to produce more milk. At least 2 months holiday per year (more than most humans). Sure they work 7 days a week, but only approx 4 hours a day. Spend the rest of the day eating and sleeping, without having to worry about predators or finding food. And sure, their babies are taken from them at birth, but after an hour they hardly care. After a week they have completely forgotten.
Dairy cows in NZ have a fucking exceptional life. God damn townies.
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I enjoy my meat too much to really care about the animals themselves. It comes neatly packaged at the super so I dont need to think about the animal. However, I still easily make jugemental calls about peoples treatment of other animals, and people that eat animals that I think they shouldnt. I dont really care about most, its just the cute or endangered ones that get my going.
And there we have it, If I unfairly paraphrase this a little we can get the general NZ opinion on animal welfare.
I enjoy meat too much to care about animals and I don't have to think about it due to how nicely the meat is packed.
However when I see a cute animal or an animal I like getting killed I get very angry and call people savages like that fucking Paea Taufa guy
Also Sea Shepard can get fucked.
Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous, you'd have to farm other animals just to feed them in order to eat them, which is a bit pointless.
Pigs don't need to eat meat, so they are more efficent to farm.
Plus the taste super good.
Dogs are apparently quite tasty, is your stance you should only eat farmed animals?
I believe they sort of farm dogs in South Korea.
Or just a sea farm?
But then you are still killing animals that are above Bounty Hunters smart-enough-to-not-be-eaten threshold so we have to make them stupid using genetic modification and then setup a sea farm.
Then we are sweet.
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Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous, you'd have to farm other animals just to feed them in order to eat them, which is a bit pointless.
Pigs don't need to eat meat, so they are more efficent to farm.
Plus the taste super good.
Dogs are apparently quite tasty, is your stance you should only eat farmed animals?
I believe they sort of factory farm dogs in South Korea.
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Or just a sea farm?
But then you are still killing animals that are above Bounty Hunters smart-enough-to-not-be-eaten threshold so we have to make them stupid using genetic modification and then setup a sea farm.
Then we are sweet.
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Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous
Not exactly correct here. Dogs are not carnivorous.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_Poi_Dog
The Hawaiian Poi Dog or ʻīlio (ʻīlio mākuʻe for brown individuals) is an extinct breed of pariah dog from Hawaiʻi which was used by Native Hawaiians as a spiritual protector of children and as a source of food.
It is still legal to eat your own dog in Hawai'i
http://legaltoeatdogsinhawaii.blogspot.co.nz/
Dogs are apparently quite tasty, is your stance you should only eat farmed animals?
I believe they sort of farm dogs in South Korea.
Dog is one of the few meats I have not eaten yet.
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Its the Japanese. See either way you look at it theyre smart. Why go out and spend millions on big ships and crew to get whales and dolpins only to be chased around the sea by a bunch of hyped up nappie headed greenpeace hippies when they could simply flick the islanders a fraction of that cost and get THEM to do the dirty bit.
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Cats and Dogs are impractical to farm, because they're carnivorous, you'd have to farm other animals just to feed them in order to eat them, which is a bit pointless.
Pigs don't need to eat meat, so they are more efficent to farm.
Plus the taste super good.
They sure do
(http://www.gifsforum.com/images/meme/black%20humor/grand/black-humor-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-2206.jpg)
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I only eat 'Tuna safe' Dolphin. I'm a good guy like that.
Someone has to stand up for the beautiful Tunas.
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I only eat 'Tuna safe' Dolphin. I'm a good guy like that.
Someone has to stand up for the beautiful Tunas.
(http://www.iforce.co.nz/i/duycg4qn.szk.gif)
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Dolphins are pretty smart, cows arent and taste good...
Kelly says the group was just settling in to view the magnificent giant Mantas when they saw a Bottlenose dolphin swimming toward them.
Your random fact of the day
Catalepsean Node - The Catalepsean Node is the 6th of the 19 gene-seed organs that are implanted into a Space Marine Neophyte to produce a new Astartes. This organ is implanted into the back of the cerebrum, just above the brain stem. When deprived of sleep for a long period of time, the Catalepsean Node "cuts in" upon detecting a rise in the Astartes' stress and fatigue hormones. This allows the Astartes to consciously "switch off" sections of the brain sequentially, while remaining awake and alert. This ability comes at a price, as prolonged use of this ability can be hazardous, possibly inducing hallucinations or even psychosis. This implant bears a resemblance to an ancient scientific theory as to how cetaceans known as "Bottlenose Dolphins" "sleep": shutting off sections of their brain while remaining awake and alert through the active use of the other sections. Yet even the mighty Space Marines cannot go too long without actual rest. The longest any Space Marine has ever been on active combat duty without rest is 328 hours, achieved by a squad of the Crimson Fists' Kill-team during the battle against the Orks for Rynn's World.
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Your random fact of the day
FOR THE EMPEROR!!!!!
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/8269589/Magnitude-8-quake-hits-off-Solomon-Islands
Karma?
Inb4 hatemail - I'm joking of course.
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TBH I thought the same thing.
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Because you are sick people.
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I bet dophins rode in on the tsunami and headbutted those islanders to death.
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Americans don't pay islanders, islanders murder dolphins, Americans have HAARP, islanders get tsunami'd.
^^ this should be in the conspiracy thread
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You mean, this isn't a conspiracy theory thread?
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You mean, this isn't a conspiracy theory thread?
Thats what THEY want you to think
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What do you mean THEORY? the evidence is RIGHT THURR!
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I wonder if there are dolphins swimming around wearing necklaces of human teeth now...
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They were there to pre-warn them, its only the the humans didnt understand the Dolphs .... noobs
(http://www.iforce.co.nz/i/4kyelfcp.eht.jpg)