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Repayments are increased by 2 cents, and they're out on the street protesting!
Get back to studying!
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Not only that, but they've cut post-graduate student allowance.
After the government announced that to study as a Teacher you would have to enter post-graduate study.
Fucked all round.
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Serves them right.
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Do the math, once graduated, if they work 40 hours a week on minimum wage, the extra cost per day of repayments is less than 50c. It's such a hardship paying back money that you borrow that attracts nil fucking interest.
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Paying back a loan regardless of interest, on minimum wage which is what a lot of students step into after becoming qualified, is difficult at best.
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Fair enough.
But I bet most of those protesting students are still studing, and don't actually have to pay it back yet.
The ones who are paying it back are too busy working to waste time standing on a street protesting.
What is a bit silly, I think, is that they removed the voluntary repayment bonus. Which takes aways the only incentive to actually pay any more then the minimum amount.
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Students are idiots in these parts.
Studying useless BA in Arts, getting hammered every night and costing the council thousands in clean up crews due to having to clean up broken glass every week.
I feel for those students who put in the hard yards and are more than likely the ones NOT at the protests because they understand that crying like a little bitch isn't going to change anything.
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Please change thread title to 'Bloody Art Students' they are the problem. :3
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Do the math, once graduated, if they work 40 hours a week on minimum wage, the extra cost per day of repayments is less than 50c. It's such a hardship paying back money that you borrow that attracts nil $#@!ing interest.
or leave NZ and never pay it back ;)
Please change thread title to 'Bloody Art Students' they are the problem. :3
and Commerce students.
The goverment should instead give incentives to areas that need more students and remove incentives for areas that don't.
aka: If you go study Engineering/IT/Doctors/Nurses etc, then your loan is interest free. If you study Commerce/Law/Arts etc then your loan is not interest free.
This would get people studying and filling jobs in areas that actually need them, thus the Goverment getting their money back quicker, instead of this blanket increase in repayment rate.
As per usual though: This Goverment just takes the easy way out with everything and never finds real solutions to NZ's problems. This increase in repayment rate won't stop the culture of going to Uni to "live your dreams" and it won't stop graduated Commerce and Arts students getting in line for the Dole and competing against 200 other applicants for a job relating to their degree.
What is a bit silly, I think, is that they removed the voluntary repayment bonus. Which takes aways the only incentive to actually pay any more then the minimum amount.
Its perhaps because it wasn't very effective. I think students soon realised that they could make more in interest over the life of the loan just by leaving their cash in the bank instead of early repayments.
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Took me 5 years to study BDes Hons.
Now working 3 shit jobs paying back student loan of 60kish @ $29 per week. Half my wages go to Fuel so I can actually get to my fucking jobs. At this rate I'll be middleaged before its paid it off.
One of my classmates flew to Sydney 2 days after graduation last week, was instantly offered a job in Product Advertising @ AU$60k+ per year
I was invited to do my Masters, I guess thats out the window.
EDIT: I work 6.5 days a week :S
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Can't say I have wanton disatisfaction with these areas of the budget, but I do feel that there is money that could be better spent on Education from other sectors - namely, Superannuation.
I do not support a capping of Student Allowance for Post-Graduate students, these people should be given as much support as possible. Instead, better management and auditing of the tax system and some principle changes to eligibility to student allowance could ensure that the recipients are those who need the money, rather than those whose parents have clever accountants (which sadly - albeit anecdotally - seem to be the majority of Student Allowance recipients ).
Who can blame them for protesting though? Voicing dissatisfaction with the government is an institution of student kiwi life. The issue of course, is whether or not all our graduates head overseas once they finish their degree because of a government who places more importance on looking after baby boomers than it does the economy.
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The goverment should instead give incentives to areas that need more students and remove incentives for areas that don't.
aka: If you go study Engineering/IT/Doctors/Nurses etc, then your loan is interest free. If you study Commerce/Law/Arts etc then your loan is not interest free.
This would get people studying and filling jobs in areas that actually need them, thus the Goverment getting their money back quicker, instead of this blanket increase in repayment rate.
the problem with this is that NCEA absolutely screws the students up in terms of pre-req's required for Engineering and IT - and i suspect its the same for medical degrees as well
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just going to add in here - it took me 4 years (in total) working minimum wage jobs before I got my foot in the door of IT and was able to get a decent Salary and then to move from the position I was in to the company I am at now - I had to do a fair amount of personal education in my own time to bring my skills up to the point where I could ask for the higher salary
That was with no tertiary education.
if you come out of uni with a degree - you still have to do the 3-4 years of hard grind in crappy bottom rung jobs before you have the experiance necessary to start commanding a decent pay packet. Also it helps if you do stuff in your own time and claim it as experiance - maybe you have finished a graphic design course, well do some freebies or mates rates jobs for friends/family business and put it on your CV.
Work experiance people.
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I currently pay $79/week to student loan.
How much will I now have to pay following this budget?
That is all.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/budget-2012/6985706/English-taunts-student-protesters
Looks like he's more or less hit the nail on the head.
I know it's more to do with VSM, but there are times when I am thankful that Douglas got that through because of things like this:
NZUSA President, Pete Hodkinson said students felt "targeted" by the Budget.
"What is not fair and reasonable, and what this government doesn't want to accept is that the loan repayment threshold kicks in below the poverty line for our graduates who shouldn't be forced into paying for the 'private benefit of education', before that benefit is realised," Hodkinson said.
The NZUSA consistently breaches its mandate by making statements on political issues that do not fairly represent the members of the associations that it is made up from. The cost of VSM is that we will never have a national student association that can say it speaks for all students - but I'd rather have no voice than a voice that pushes an agenda on my behalf that I didn't agree to.
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I currently pay $79/week to student loan.
How much will I now have to pay following this budget?
That is all.
Another $16 a week. ie 20% increase from 10c in the dollar to 12c.
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That's quite painful actually.
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just going to add in here - it took me 4 years (in total) working minimum wage jobs before I got my foot in the door of IT and was able to get a decent Salary and then to move from the position I was in to the company I am at now - I had to do a fair amount of personal education in my own time to bring my skills up to the point where I could ask for the higher salary
That was with no tertiary education.
if you come out of uni with a degree - you still have to do the 3-4 years of hard grind in crappy bottom rung jobs before you have the experiance necessary to start commanding a decent pay packet. Also it helps if you do stuff in your own time and claim it as experiance - maybe you have finished a graphic design course, well do some freebies or mates rates jobs for friends/family business and put it on your CV.
Work experiance people.
Industries work differently from each other. IT is probably one of the few industries that will allow it's inhabitants to climb the ranks on experience alone. I don't think the financial sector would want many people working in it if they weren't accredited, same goes for the medical industries. Some sectors just have too much theoretical practice involved that force you to go through tertiary education. Early Childhood Teaching requires tertiary education to become an accredited teacher, and now it will require post-grad study which is now no longer covered by the SL scheme.
Also, if you plan to work internationally, having an international qualification is going to mean a fuck load more than experience with a few places that have no bearing on an international stage.
Experience doesn't always = more money. Certain areas within industries have capped salaries.
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Early Childhood Teaching requires tertiary education to become an accredited teacher, and now it will require post-grad study which is now no longer covered by the SL scheme.
Wait what? I thought the limit to post-grad study was only on Student Allowance? They're not offering loans either?
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I think inmotion may be wrong there. I don't think they're changing the 10-year limit on loans. So you can keep on studying, you just need to borrow living costs.
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Sorry, I was referring to SA. Don't know why I put in SL.
My bad.
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Sorry, I was referring to SA. Don't know why I put in SL.
My bad.
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Industries work differently from each other. IT is probably one of the few industries that will allow it's inhabitants to climb the ranks on experience alone. I don't think the financial sector would want many people working in it if they weren't accredited, same goes for the medical industries. Some sectors just have too much theoretical practice involved that force you to go through tertiary education. Early Childhood Teaching requires tertiary education to become an accredited teacher, and now it will require post-grad study which is now no longer covered by the SL scheme.
Also, if you plan to work internationally, having an international qualification is going to mean a fuck load more than experience with a few places that have no bearing on an international stage.
Experience doesn't always = more money. Certain areas within industries have capped salaries.
I think you missed the wood for the Tree - certainly in the finance sector you need accreditation, but just being accredited alone is not going to land you a sweet job raking in a 60K + Income, thats where you need the experiance.
Same with being a Lawyer, a good friend of mine who passed is bar exam, spent 2-3 years as a clerk before finallying becoming a full fledged lawyer - again gaining expierance at a lower rung.
my point is that students who complain about there not being any jobs or jobs that don't pay well tend to forget that while they have a nice qualification, their lack of experiance means they are going to do some hard graft for a few years before being able to get those nice fat salaries
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Took me 5 years to study BDes Hons.
Now working 3 shit jobs paying back student loan of 60kish @ $29 per week. Half my wages go to Fuel so I can actually get to my fucking jobs. At this rate I'll be middleaged before its paid it off.
One of my classmates flew to Sydney 2 days after graduation last week, was instantly offered a job in Product Advertising @ AU$60k+ per year
I was invited to do my Masters, I guess thats out the window.
EDIT: I work 6.5 days a week :S
$29.00 dollars a week is around $1500 pa.
It'll take 40+ years at that rate.
What's your definition of middle age?
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I think you missed the wood for the Tree - certainly in the finance sector you need accreditation, but just being accredited alone is not going to land you a sweet job raking in a 60K + Income, thats where you need the experiance.
Same with being a Lawyer, a good friend of mine who passed is bar exam, spent 2-3 years as a clerk before finallying becoming a full fledged lawyer - again gaining expierance at a lower rung.
my point is that students who complain about there not being any jobs or jobs that don't pay well tend to forget that while they have a nice qualification, their lack of experiance means they are going to do some hard graft for a few years before being able to get those nice fat salaries
Indeed - that is of course, if you're from the middle/lower class.
In this incestuous little country it's not hard to get a backhander or a job if you're in the right social circles - I'm sure that is more or less the tendering process for all the lucrative government contracts.
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I think you missed the wood for the Tree
Whatever.
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Student graduates. The only class in New Zealand National does not fear to openly increase taxes on.
How annoying it is that some people protest such targeting.
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The problem with NZ students is they expect everything to be handed to them, I am currently studying a BE Hons, my parents earn to much for me to get a student allowance, but they don't earn enough to fully support me, and the living costs loan that I get is not enough to even cover my rent with having to live in auckland. But you don't see me out on the street protesting and complaining that the government isn't doing enough to support me, no I instead I went and found a part time job that allows me to cover my cost of living, sure I don't get much time free between doing an engineering degree and part time work but shit life ain't easy and people need to stop being lazy sacks of shit and get on with it instead of complaining.
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I like you Fez.
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Fez - what type of engineering do you want to do ? With your positive attitude I can see many any employer wanting you on thier books.
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I am doing mechanical engineering at AUT.
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My student Loan I got was paid back for alarge chunk when they attracted interest. A BBS degree wasnt cheap but also wasnt a engineering or mdeical degree - still paying interest each year when I started out in the workforce hurt like hell.
So I feel for you poor poor students that get to get a degree that will only benefit you and your family in the long run with no interest.
and everyone has to do the time and work up the professional ladder - those that expect to walk into a high paying job straight out of Uni have been on too many pub crawls
To those of you that work hard at what you do because you know what you need to do - well done
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The problem with NZ students is they expect everything to be handed to them.
Problem there is, if your parents went to University, It was handed to them free, on a silver platter, with cherries
my parents earn to much for me to get a student allowance, but they don't earn enough to fully support me, and the living costs loan that I get is not enough to even cover my rent
Same for me when studying in Wellington. I saved 13k working in 6th-7th form. After first year I had to sell my Car, my Brothers Car (Good Story Here) and most of my Guns. :(
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Problem there is, if your parents went to University, It was handed to them free, on a silver platter, with cherries
I don't know what the situation was for when my parents went to university, but that is completely irrelevant as it was not in New Zealand as they and I are not New Zealand born. But for people to use that excuses because my parents got a free pass to university I should too is complete bullshit, times change economies change everything changes and because something was available to people 20-30 odd years ago doesn't mean that it can be available now and that is a huge problem in New Zealand everyone makes comparison to something in the past or other countries and they always look at the small picture which benefits them instead of the complete picture. I am sure it was viable back then to give university education for free, but back then I am sure the government had a lot more money available to do it as it wasn't supporting so many people with benefits, that was because back then everyone worked and worked hard because they knew if you want anything in life you had to work for it. But in today's society everyone expects everything to be handed to them, that is why the government can't give free university to students because they are to busy spending money on supporting everyone else who is too lazy to work for what they want, and expects it to be given to them.
Same for me when studying in Wellington. I saved 13k working in 6th-7th form. After first year I had to sell my Car, my Brothers Car (Good Story Here) and most of my Guns. :(
That really surprises me, because I started uni with no savings and $14000 in debt and sure I had to sell a few things of mine that weren't necessary but I never had to consider selling my car or anything substitutional like that. I don't know what situation you were in which caused you to consume $13000 of savings plus around $7000 of living cost loans (assuming you used it) in a year as well as having to sell 2 cars and your guns but that is about the same amount of money that what I was earning in a full time job above minimum wage which would say to me that you where living outside of you means, and is more money than what I will have used to support myself living in Auckland this year, which would be the most expensive place to in New Zealand for a student.
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I don't think Kooky was arguing that he/we should get it because our parents did. It's just that the common argument is "students are lazy shits and should stop asking for free shit" when not too long ago, students were given loans to do as they wanted. They could go out and buy cars and houses. I know of people that would get a student loan, put it in the bank and let it gain interest.
It's of relevance because those people throwing shit at students are usually the older demographic who were the ones getting student loans with no system in place that governed the spending of that student loan.
Also, tertiary education is getting pricier and pricier. I left 4 years of study with a 50K bill, and what I studied has since gone up in price.
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when not too long ago, students were given loans to do as they wanted. They could go out and buy cars and houses. I know of people that would get a student loan, put it in the bank and let it gain interest..
And because of this abuse the system was changed and is still being changed.
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I don't know what the situation was for when my parents went to university, but that is completely irrelevant as it was not in New Zealand as they and I are not New Zealand born. But for people to use that excuses because my parents got a free pass to university I should too is complete bullshit, times change economies change everything changes and because something was available to people 20-30 odd years ago doesn't mean that it can be available now and that is a huge problem in New Zealand everyone makes comparison to something in the past or other countries and they always look at the small picture which benefits them instead of the complete picture. I am sure it was viable back then to give university education for free, but back then I am sure the government had a lot more money available to do it as it wasn't supporting so many people with benefits, that was because back then everyone worked and worked hard because they knew if you want anything in life you had to work for it. But in today's society everyone expects everything to be handed to them, that is why the government can't give free university to students because they are to busy spending money on supporting everyone else who is too lazy to work for what they want, and expects it to be given to them.
That really surprises me, because I started uni with no savings and $14000 in debt and sure I had to sell a few things of mine that weren't necessary but I never had to consider selling my car or anything substitutional like that. I don't know what situation you were in which caused you to consume $13000 of savings plus around $7000 of living cost loans (assuming you used it) in a year as well as having to sell 2 cars and your guns but that is about the same amount of money that what I was earning in a full time job above minimum wage which would say to me that you where living outside of you means, and is more money than what I will have used to support myself living in Auckland this year, which would be the most expensive place to in New Zealand for a student.
What retardo said, i wasnt trying to argue with you.
When you study Industrial design (Product design), out of the $800-1000 you pay per paper, none of it goes toward your projects materials and process costs.
Building Prototypes is FUCKING EXPENSIVE. I'd build one Prototype every 3-4weeks per paper @ a cost of $600-3000. I had 3 papers per Trimester, sometimes 4.
You see where the money went?
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What retardo said, i wasnt trying to argue with you.
When you study Industrial design (Product design), out of the $800-1000 you pay per paper, none of it goes toward your projects materials and process costs.
Building Prototypes is FUCKING EXPENSIVE. I'd build one Prototype every 3-4weeks per paper @ a cost of $600-3000. I had 3 papers per Trimester, sometimes 4.
You see where the money went?
Yes I do and that is why it surprised me that you had gone through so much money. Now I get where you are coming from, well done for your dedication with sticking with your degree and completing it, hopefully all that sacrifice pays off in the future.
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The worst part about throwing so much money into projects, theres no money for anything else, rent/power/internet/food <- I'm still a fat cnut?
Having to call your Parents each time your flat broke is probably the most gut wrenching feeling for me. I imagine almost as bad a feeling for Police when they have to inform someone of a death.
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I saved 13k working in 6th-7th form. After first year I had to sell my Car, my Brothers Car (Good Story Here) and most of my Guns. :(
I find all this talk about student budgeting/course costs really interesting!
With the zero fees scheme at the Southern Institute of Technology (http://www.getsome.co.nz/showthread.php?48083-Southern-Institute-of-Technology) a Bachelor of Information Technology degree costs (roughly) $1800/year.
Three years = 3*1800 = $5400
Huge yearly attrition rates though. From an initial class of 120 students approximately 12 will actually end up graduating.
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i have no issues with the govt increasing my repayment rate for my loan - infact i would prefer it if they switched my tax and student loan repayments around - that way the loan gets paid off faster and the tax they get once i have finished paying off the loan will be higher
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I thought the herald summed it up quite nicely when interviewing a student about to enter post-grad study: "With this new budget, I might have to even get a part-time job or something.
Parents earn too much for me to get that free student allowance, drive to uni everyday, work part-time, study inbetween, last year of study this year, aching to get a full-time job.
Those kids out in the street had nothing better to do, and actually skipped classes to protest about not getting free money for studying. Yeah ok.
National getting hammered for cleaning up Labours fuckups since ages ago.
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The actual students who are serious about their degrees and futures where at lectures and doing work instead of making it extremely difficult for people trying to get home, which is another thing that pisses me off about that protest, there were plenty of other places were they could have staged the protest like Albert park or Aotea square, not blocking a busy intersection.
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Glad I don't go to auckland.
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It amazing how everyone expects to get handouts. I know plenty of people who didn't get student allowance, but at the same time their parents were really supporting them, and they got by fine with a part time job, working hard in the end of year break, and using their savings cleverly. I mean using the $150 you can get a week, plus $100 odd on the top from a part time job (which is really only 1-2 shifts), plus say $5k made from working in the summer, you can do fine. Assuming you dont have outrageous expenses like kooky.
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7k loan, part time night shift job, still live at home though.
So glad I don't have a 60k loan or anything ridiculous like that, I have no problem with what the increase tbh.
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$0k loan, didn't bother with any type or form of tertiary education. To be honest I think the govt taking action to discourage people from tertiary is about time, many don't truly benefit from it, are doing it out of a feeling of necessity rather than interest in a subject. Being overqualified for a minimum wage job is hardly a satisfying feeling. The loan part is salt in the wound sure, but becoming a student is not mandatory.
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$0k loan, didn't bother with any type or form of tertiary education. To be honest I think the govt taking action to discourage people from tertiary is about time, many don't truly benefit from it, are doing it out of a feeling of necessity rather than interest in a subject. Being overqualified for a minimum wage job is hardly a satisfying feeling. The loan part is salt in the wound sure, but becoming a student is not mandatory.
I don't think the move discourages tertiary study, just stops idiots from chopping and changing all day everyday with their degrees.
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This is pretty good news. I was just thinking that we need to make it harder for people from lower socioeconomic backgrounds to become doctors.
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is that a thread you want to pull at? How many poor people became doctors when tertiary education was free ? There are programs set up to benefit ethnic minorities already with lower requirements to enter/pass, guess how that is turning out. lots more enrollments, no more graduates. Thank god for immigrant doctors.
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If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.
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If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.
What a stupid idea. Do you you even know how grades work?
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What a stupid idea. Do you you even know how grades work?
I'm sure it's a sensible idea, if you're from an NCEA background.
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If everybody had a rate on their loan, the rate would be determined by the grades you get.
A=5%
B=10%
C=15%
Obviously not exactly those number and people from the lower class have it a bit easier but it would help weed out the ones that aren't serious enough about it. Or even if you get a D or less you get funding cut? Medical students wouldn't suffer as much because they would be getting around A for most of their papers.
Stupid idea.
And you already get your student loan funding cut if you fail a certain percentage of your papers in a year.
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For me - the ideal situation would be something along the lines of the following:
After finishing university you have a 5 year period in which to find a job in the area that you studied (in NZ) and provided you stay in that field for another 5 year period, your Student loan is erased:
If an art student gets an Art degree and becomes a curator of an Art museum after 2 years - the Tax money that I have paid to put that student through uni and into a Career, I like to think of an investment in the future of the country which I do not mind paying.
however if someone gets a degree in theoretical physics but gets a job as an insurance salesman - then they can pay back the money that was used to get their Degree.
Yes there are many holes with the idea (not least of which if it where to be put into effect, the amount of job description fraud/corruption that would occur so people could claim that the line of work they were in uses their degree would be horrendous) but the esscence of the idea I believe is good. I don't mind paying for other people to go through university, get a higher level of Education and then take a job in that line of work - IMO the reward that society gets from having more higher-educated people in jobs that are in their field outweighs the cost of educating them in the first place.
Something else that is also relevant to add here:
Someone I know who has a degree in a specialized field of engineering who also runs their own company that does work in this specialized field once told me this:
On an average day at work, he uses only about 5% of the things that he learnt at University, however occasionally a task will come along when he needs to reference or at least understand the other 95% that he did and it is on these days that his degree is worth its weight in Gold.
Some jobs don't require tertiery education, Some jobs require a degree, Some jobs it is a nice to have and Some jobs really don't require it, but they think they do...
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^that sounds like spending $10,000 in admin costs, chasing $10.Then there'd be the loopholes. ie if your insurance guy specialised in insurance for physics labs ?
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^that sounds like spending $10,000 in admin costs, chasing $10.Then there'd be the loopholes. ie if your insurance guy specialised in insurance for physics labs ?
As I said, there are many many many possible loopholes that I can see, but if it were possible to implement it in a way that didn't have these loopholes then I think it would work nicely
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The trouble with that idea is that it is incredibly narrow minded. The finance industry for instance targets people with Mathematics and theoretical physics degress as they have the knowledge and ability with numbers etc which many with a degree in finance are just unable to grasp. The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.
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No it's worse than idiotic. it wont solve any issues with the costs of education, it just punishs people for finding their talents & interests weren't what they thought they were when they were young & dumb.
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Inb4 conscription
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Inb4 conscription
Would prefer castration for some of the current crop of NCEA wonder kids.
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The trouble with that idea is that it is incredibly narrow minded. The finance industry for instance targets people with Mathematics and theoretical physics degress as they have the knowledge and ability with numbers etc which many with a degree in finance are just unable to grasp. The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.
There is something very wrong with a Financial degree then if someone who passes it is unable to grasp....
And it isn't about punishing people - its about society:
an Educated person doing a job in the field that they studied is a great thing and IMO throughout their life time, they will pay society back through Taxes and general improving society - for these people, they should get free education, because in the end society reaps the benefits of having more educated people in a particular field.
If someone wants to get a degree for the sake of having a degree, because they thought they might like to do that, to look impressive on their CV, I have no problem with this. I just expect these people to pay for the privledge of having a degree that isn't being used to benefit society
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an Educated person doing a job in the field that they studied is a great thing and IMO throughout their life time, they will pay society back through Taxes and general improving society - for these people, they should get free education, because in the end society reaps the benefits of having more educated people in a particular field
Weren't you just advocating experience over education?
Society.
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I like how this thread turned into a discussion about the new catchphrase for looking down your nose at someone.
I believe it involves the phrase "sense of entitlement."
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Weren't you just advocating experience over education?
Society.
nope - I was advocating people who are prepared to take bottom rung job in an industry that is relevant to their degree in order to gain the necessary experiance needed to get the higher paying jobs.
as opposed to those who come out of uni and expect to be gifted a 60 k a year job without any industry experiance
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I think the fundamental misunderstanding you seem to express in the earlier post about targeted area loan-rates, is that a degree has a 'set' industrial application.
Any degree is relevant to almost any industry, and that simply because the degree has an area with which it has a greater affinity (i.e. LLB to Lawyer/Practice) doesn't mean it doesn't have a million different other signifcantly valuable applications also. (i.e. LLBs can make good media spokespersons or a polsci degree to investment banking).
You can't exactly install punitive or diversive measures to prevent people working outside of their 'given field' for a number of reasons. A) That 'given field' is arbitrary - if you were to compile a schedule of the skills learned in any degree, the cross over with other degrees from different disciplines would be huge, B) Analytical skills learned in any degree should have application across almost any field, C) It wouldn't be econimically beneficial to society as not only would it reduce the flexibility grads have in choosing their industry, it would also reduce the flexbility from the demand side of the labour market, in terms of which graduates industries can feasibly employ.
Varkk has hit it on the head
The point of a university education is to encourage 'critical thinking' and not just the specifics that are included in the degree courses.
The actual facts you may learn as part of your education are just a side-effect to developing the analytical skills which are vital for any non-trivial job. By the end of a degree the student should be able to apply these skills in to a wide range of fields, and not just the specifics they encountered in their course work.
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A society that bases a persons worth on their monetary contribution is shit. U can keep it, at least the baby boomers had better values than you.
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Do you you even know how grades work?
Yes, A is greater than B which is in turn greater than C and so on.
And you already get your student loan funding cut if you fail a certain percentage of your papers in a year.
That I didn't know
In case my point wasn't clear enough the whole point is that better performing students are rewarded over the long run increasing the average quality of each students knowledge by controlling the interest rates via grades. Less of them would be on the streets and actually studying instead of just wasting money which could be better spent on other things or collecting interest in some sort of investment......John Key.
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I don't think that you have enough life experience to make a reasoned contribution here.
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Fair enough.
But I bet most of those protesting students are still studing, and don't actually have to pay it back yet.
The ones who are paying it back are too busy working to waste time standing on a street protesting.
What is a bit silly, I think, is that they removed the voluntary repayment bonus. Which takes aways the only incentive to actually pay any more then the minimum amount.
Funny to say that.
Everyone fucking voted Labour for one reason and one reason only when they blatently BRIBED the entire country's student populace with a student loan ease up.
Also, I did a BA.
I get paid well.
It is my first job out of uni.
I do not begrudge paying a loan.
What I do begrudge is watching every drunk fuckwit running around partying hard on taxpayer money because their parents bullshitted on some form to enable them to receive the allowance. I worked hard, and I barely got by. I have no idea how one affords to get pissed as fuck every weekend, but I do know that it is fully taken for granted. Those whinging need to simply harden the fuck up.
I'm not against loans and allowances, I actually believe that what is currently paid is not enough. I do however believe that allowance is far too easy to get, and that the loan living costs is far too little. It may have changed in recent years, but that is how I felt when I left uni.
I still have over 30k left on my loan, but paying it back faster is CERTAINLY not something I begrudge. I'd rather welcome it. It may mean less disposable income each payday, but I seriously doubt I'd even notice the difference of a measely 2¢.
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http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/used-cars/ford/auction-469405592.htm
AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAH
*sigh*
Ha.
It has had a supercharger mounted up to the 6 cylinder engine, although not connected for boost. The belt drives the supercharger, so it still makes the right noise, but the engine itself it not force fed. Gets a massive amount of looks!!
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Why would anyone build a car like that?
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Not to mention that it is a dirty 6 posing as a 351 :/ All for show, what a wank.
Comes with a free mullet, blue tank top and a zz-top cassette, all at no extra charge.
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maybe the builder was an art student, and it's a powerful message shrouded in anguish.
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maybe the builder was an art student, and it's a powerful message shrouded in anguish.
THIS
It's a metaphor for the bogun. Acting all tough and showy while having nothing much under the hood.
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Why would anyone build a car like that?
The owner was schooled in NCEA, so nothing is ever fail.
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Not to mention that it is a dirty 6 posing as a 351 :/ All for show, what a wank.
Comes with a free mullet, blue tank top and a zz-top cassette, all at no extra charge.
Nothing wrong with Ford's 6s tbh, the barras are relatively impressive for a 6. A supercharged 6 would be quite interesting - but it's pretty essential to actually have boost going into the engine - otherwise you're paying all that energy to drive the supercharger with absolutely no gain.
That car is an abomination.
On a side note, I was meant to post that in the CHCH thread - but NCEA literacy seems to have failed me.
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Funny to say that.
Everyone fucking voted Labour for one reason and one reason only when they blatently BRIBED the entire country's student populace with a student loan ease up.
Also, I did a BA.
I get paid well.
It is my first job out of uni.
I do not begrudge paying a loan.
What I do begrudge is watching every drunk fuckwit running around partying hard on taxpayer money because their parents bullshitted on some form to enable them to receive the allowance. I worked hard, and I barely got by. I have no idea how one affords to get pissed as fuck every weekend, but I do know that it is fully taken for granted. Those whinging need to simply harden the fuck up.
I'm not against loans and allowances, I actually believe that what is currently paid is not enough. I do however believe that allowance is far too easy to get, and that the loan living costs is far too little. It may have changed in recent years, but that is how I felt when I left uni.
I still have over 30k left on my loan, but paying it back faster is CERTAINLY not something I begrudge. I'd rather welcome it. It may mean less disposable income each payday, but I seriously doubt I'd even notice the difference of a measely 2¢.
Totally agree. I have paid off my student loan via min repayments. It did suck seeing my pay dwindled down a bit but to be honest you don't notice that much and if you finish paying your loan off you are then in good steed to continue saving that same amount each pay if you choose to do so. Most students don't seem to be looking too far into the future however so I doubt this would happen.
I was bribed by Labour and voted for them when it suited me. Tbh I am unhappy with National and Labour's policies at present and don't know which is the lesser of two evils. The economist National or the handout Labour. I fall in the middle of who each are targeting. National the rich and Labour the poor. Middle income earners seem to be the ones getting f*cked by both parties and I would say middle income earners are the majority?
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I could dispute that. Labour plays short game. Appease the people now. National plays long game, trying to pull the entire fucking nation up out of debt. I don't agree with everything they do, for sure. But I think that although some of the things they propose may have a hardship in the beginning, in the end we'll all be better off.
It's just like the students. Most of them are living completely in the now. And society grooms that. The must have gadgets. The fashions. The keeping up with everyone else. Spend all your money, save none. The typical Kiwi lives far outside their means for practicle futures. Greed has become the western world now more than ever before. And we sink ourselves with it.
Smart management breeds brighter futures. Many of us need to learn self control along with humility and ambition. Not "shit I need an iPhone so I can pretend to be someone."
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I could dispute that. Labour plays short game. Appease the people now. National plays long game, trying to pull the entire fucking nation up out of debt. I don't agree with everything they do, for sure. But I think that although some of the things they propose may have a hardship in the beginning, in the end we'll all be better off.
Well, it's National that got us into all the debt in the first place, and the time before that also.
You can definitely argue that Labour bought votes with interest-free student loans, but National did the exact same thing with income tax cuts.
One did it with a multibillion dollar surplus, the other with a deficit. Which is less fiscally responsible?
As far as us being 'better off', I doubt that's going to be the case if they flog off our assets.
It's just like the students. Most of them are living completely in the now. And society grooms that. The must have gadgets. The fashions. The keeping up with everyone else. Spend all your money, save none. The typical Kiwi lives far outside their means for practicle futures. Greed has become the western world now more than ever before. And we sink ourselves with it.
Smart management breeds brighter futures. Many of us need to learn self control along with humility and ambition. Not "shit I need an iPhone so I can pretend to be someone."
On this, I agree. New Zealanders need to stop living outside their means. Hire-purchase, credit-cards, tick-a-tinny; it's all bad. Instant-gratification lifestyle :S
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Well, it's National that got us into all the debt in the first place, and the time before that also.
Disagree.
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Disagree.
Labour left government with an 9bn surplus (more like 6, after Nats found all the hidden ACC fuckups.
I actually don't know when the last deficit was prior to the current sich, but our economic plague during the 90's is off reforms from the fourth Labour government in the 80's - of course those reforms were in response to the massive crisis left by Muldoon's mismanagement of foreign exchange.
Two very different National governments though really.
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Labour inherited a $20bn deficit and left with a $9bn surplus. ( I guess 6 if Hori is right about whatever ACC fuck ups he is referring to, I trust him :P)
National has racked up a $60bn deficit. Yes they came in during a recession, yes they have to deal with devastation in christchurch. But the fact that $2bn of that deficit was borrowed to cover a shortfall for their tax cuts to the rich in the midst of a recession is disgraceful. Bear in mind that that is just the shortfall, not the full cost. Most of that was borne by the rest of NZ txpayers.
Also I am still waiting for that report on the sale of Govt assets that refutes all the treaury and independent reports that their sale won't improve the govt's books. Plus I loved the fact that they borrowed more than was required because the going rate was pretty cheap. But yea sure Labour can't be trusted with NZ's finances.
Shall I go on? (Who's off topic now? :P)
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Yeah National totes have the long game in mind, selling off assets to pay debt that costs less than the they are returning.
Best way to get a knowledge economy, stop subsidising those who are generating the knowledge.
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Income tax cuts were off set with a GST rise to 15% which everyone bitched and moaned and whinged about when it happened, convienently forgetting that they already had less income tax to counter the affects.
Last I recall Labour had a massive surplus... which suddenly disappeared somewhere. Fuck knows.
Politics is so not my bag, baby. The Labour bag was more a cheap shot at an almost 100% effective troll.
I was more trying to point out the differences between long game and short game. Appease the people vs upset a few and ride it out for a better future. Ngai Tahu are fantastic examples, look at what they've done with the settlement money compared to other iwi who just went and spent the lot on new XR8's.
I also said I don't agree with everything National is about, asset sales being one of them. That's short game to me.
I hate politics because there is never a correct answer. Benefits are a needed thing, the trouble is regulating it between those who actually need it and those who "crack it (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6884359/Cracking-it-on-welfare-in-Huntly)". I have a friend who's mother was in 100% no condition to work, but had her benefit cut off under National's 'work for the dole' scheme. That was a complete fucking failure. Although the idea of not letting people get complacent on it was not misplaced, the execution was extremely poor. But some people really just need a bit of motivation to get out and help themselves. Govt. Can't look after us all, unless our taxes go through the roof, and I'm pretty sure everyone would rant their fucking skulls inside out on that. But again, that could be an effective long game solution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model).
In any case of whatever the goal is at the end of a decision, lazy fuckwits raving about a 2¢ increase in repayment rates is far unfounded.
Some people really just don't belong at uni. Some should be in trade apprenticeships, some should be at polytechs. Most young people go to university these days because modern society pressures them into it. It's what is expected, it's what comes after school in order for us to make something of ourselves as if we'd be nothing without it. This ends up in some go because they feel they have to at least try, and they want the party experience, and that's all uni is to them. End up with debt, no degree, no job and a society that looks down on them for it.
It's all a heap of bullshit for anyone who's not there to get shit done to complain about anything.
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Labours 9bn surplus was accounting bullshit, the coffers were empty, nationals promises of tax returns were based on this lie about govt coffers due to the overtaxing of basically everyone. Labour hid the ACC lost monies, due to bad investments. Hid the railway fiasco (buy high, lose money, sell low). after 9 years of running a country through economic boom time, there was nothing to show for it. National were forced to go through with tax cuts as promised, and have been attempting to scrounge funds ever since. Tax revenues have dropped along with the recession.
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WTF!!! seriously, they are at it again protesting on symonds street during friday evening when people are trying to get home from work at the end of the week, what a bunch of inconsiderate twats. What the fuck do they have to complain about, they already get the student allowance which a lot of people don't get, and they seem to have enough time of their hands to get a part time job as they seem to have plenty with being able to organise and participate in the protest even with exams in just over a weeks time, some of us don't have that much time with just our studies let along having to work part time. Bunch of ungrateful fuckheads who don't know how good they have it. Glad the police are down there trying to contain it so that people can get home without having to make a detour.
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Those students were protesting the new budget cuts to the education system. I for one support protests against such a thing.
Schools are being threatened with department closure because they wont have the money to fund them.
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Bring back the red squad imo.
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friday evening when people are trying to get home from work at the end of the week
That's why.
Dicks do that shit intentionally to make the fact that they have no jobs and get supported for f(r)ee ultimately clear, so no one else will EVER give them ANY serious thought to their cause.
Auckland University.
The only university to protest the transition to voluntary student union fees (claiming it'd ruin their culture) when they were the only university in the country to ALREADY HAVE THAT RULE IN PLACE.
Retards.
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They made my bus home half an hour late, i kicked one.
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Good work.
I hope you bruised them good without causing any permenant damage.
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I'd say that there actions have alienated them, and their message, from a lot of Auckland residents.
Way to shoot yourself in the foot.
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That's why.
Dicks do that shit intentionally to make the fact that they have no jobs and get supported for f(r)ee ultimately clear, so no one else will EVER give them ANY serious thought to their cause.
Auckland University.
The only university to protest the transition to voluntary student union fees (claiming it'd ruin their culture) when they were the only university in the country to ALREADY HAVE THAT RULE IN PLACE.
Retards.
Awesome.
Pyro, the nazi loves education budget cuts. Like I posted. They weren't protesting the SA and post graduate changes, they were protesting the budget cuts announced that will do severe damage to the education system.
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I had a rather interesting talk with a friend yesterday about this whole situation. While it started about the protests, it ended up being about the zero budget, and whether its the right choice. He ended up raising some interesting points. His POV was that there is no point worrying about the deficit, because NZ % of debt of total gdp is still reasonably low. And on top of that, the goverment already subsidises ~75% of university course costs, and ends up puts a decent amount into writing off the interest from the student loans covering the part it does not subsidies. He says while a zero budget may make logical sense at first thought, coming out of a recession it makes more sense to invest heavily into education, to reap the benefits down the line. He proposes to pretty much make university free in terms of course costs, saying it will work out much better in the long term.
So what are someone, who is better informed than me on the economics of such a moves thoughts.
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I He says while a zero budget may make logical sense at first thought, coming out of a recession it makes more sense to invest heavily into education, to reap the benefits down the line. He proposes to pretty much make university free in terms of course costs, saying it will work out much better in the long term.
The thing is this government doesn't care about the long term. They are all about the here and now. Anything beyond the current fiscal period is for the next guy to worry about.
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Awesome.
Pyro, the nazi loves education budget cuts. Like I posted. They weren't protesting the SA and post graduate changes, they were protesting the budget cuts announced that will do severe damage to the education system.
Oh yup.
Well then, fair enough.
The thing is this government doesn't care about the long term. They are all about the here and now. Anything beyond the current fiscal period is for the next guy to worry about.
Even more true for the citizens IMO.
People want the now fix. The government is for the people (lol!), and to appease them and continue to hold office so that they can see their long term goals through...
That said, the government is also made up of people who want the now fix, or are pressuring for the now fix to make the opposition (who aren't enacting it) look weak.
The whole thing is just bullshit.
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The thing is this government doesn't care about the long term. They are all about the here and now. Anything beyond the current fiscal period is for the next guy to worry about.
So you are saying they are trying to get into surplus, despite not caring about the long term?
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lol, you think they are going to reach surplus. Next year in the budget they will revise the date to be another twelve months later.
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I just got an email from IRD about my student loan
Add "SL" to your tax code
If you’re earning salary or wages, make sure you add "SL" to your tax code regardless of how much you earn, unless you have received an exemption from Inland Revenue.
One view of your loan balance
Check out your total loan balance through your Inland Revenue online account, including your StudyLink transactions. You must be registered for this service.
Pay period repayment obligations for salary or wage earners in New Zealand
Your student loan deductions every pay period will be considered as meeting your repayment obligation, unless there’s a significant under- or over-deduction. You generally won’t have an end-of-year assessment.
Repayment exemptions for full-time students
You can apply for a repayment deduction exemption if you’re studying full-time and expect to earn under $19,084 in the tax year.
Special deduction rate for secondary earnings
If you earn under the pay-period threshold (e.g. $367 a week) from your main job, you can apply to reduce the repayment deductions on earnings from a second job.
Repayment holiday changes
Going overseas? If you want a break from your repayment obligations you need to apply for the one year repayment holiday and provide a contact person. Interest will still apply to your loan during the holiday. Already overseas? The repayment holiday has been shortened from three years to one year and the interest rate reduced to 6.4% p.a.
Loans in default
The rate that applies when loans are overdue has reduced to 0.843% per month. If you’re not sure how to get your loan back on track, get in touch with us.
Enhanced online services
Staying on top of your student loan has never been easier with our enhanced Inland Revenue online services. Register and login at ird.govt.nz to check your latest student loan details, apply for an exemption, special deduction rate, repayment holiday or update your contact details.
Annual administration fee
A $40 annual administration fee will be charged on your account if your loan balance is $20 or more, unless you’ve paid StudyLink an establishment fee in the same tax year.
[/quote]
What the shit? They're charging $40 a year for this?
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The thing is this government doesn't care about the long term. They are all about the here and now. Anything beyond the current fiscal period is for the next guy to worry about.
How can you say that?
That's Labours way, always has been, always will be. National did jack shit in its first term other than clean up the shitstorm of a mess that Labour left behind. National has always been about the future.
However in saying that, they shouldn't be making cuts to the education sector in the form of removing teachers, nor should they be selling assets.
They should just take away the benefit. Give the students their free education, give the people their free health care, get more teachers.
But get rid of the benefit.
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Yeah, trouble is that some people actually legitimately need it to be able to buy food.
It's just everyone else ordering SKY with it that's the problem.
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How can you say that?
That's Labours way, always has been, always will be. National did jack $#@! in its first term other than clean up the $#@!storm of a mess that Labour left behind. National has always been about the future.
Like when Labour ran a surplus and paid back a lot of the debt that the government had run up since Muldoon's days, while National called for tax cuts. They established the Cullen Fund and Kiwisaver scheme to help ensure reitrement benefits would still be available years down the track. Last election they talked about raising the retirement age over concerns of the affordability of the system. Where as National has cut income taxes for the top, increased other taxes and charges paid by everyone and run up a large debt to do so. Which one was about the future and which one about rewarding themselves now?
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Both.
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I love it when people rage about Muldoon, seeing every single one of his think big projects still runs today, in the black, and have directly employed thousands of people. His debts were at least on tangible things that made returns. What the fuck have any governments since created ? (And no relabelling/branding/imaging do not count as creations).
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I love it when people rage about Muldoon, seeing every single one of his think big projects still runs today, in the black, and have directly employed thousands of people. His debts were at least on tangible things that made returns. What the fuck have any governments since created ? (And no relabelling/branding/imaging do not count as creations).
Absolutely, his interventionism is to be applauded. But you now have an economically liberal National party - there's not much comparison.
Muldoon's biggest fail was his refusal to not de-value the currency in the 80s, and subsequently lost hundreds of millions of dollars in reserves.
You've got to give credit to Labour for the Cullen Fund - which pays for Muldoon's promised superannuation.
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. Last election they talked about raising the retirement age over concerns of the affordability of the system.
And they are still talking about this and other parties are jumping on the same band wagon - but funny how they are all talking about bringing it in round 2020 - not tomorrow - so it is a waste and just grandstanding on an issue that isnt relevant today or even for the current term of government as the next 2 terms could change the date anyway.
Parties should be addressing issues that are relevant and able to make change on today and retirement age isnt one of them
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And they are still talking about this and other parties are jumping on the same band wagon - but funny how they are all talking about bringing it in round 2020 - not tomorrow - so it is a waste and just grandstanding on an issue that isnt relevant today or even for the current term of government as the next 2 terms could change the date anyway.
Parties should be addressing issues that are relevant and able to make change on today and retirement age isnt one of them
I think you grossly misunderstand this issue.
The problem with implementation is that it has to be phased in, so that people who're 64 today aren't affected - or grey power will be on your front lawn with pitchforks and a stake to burn you at.
It is extremely relevant today, because our inaction now will cost us dearly down the track.
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hehe, the problem with pensions is the cost. the problems with every solution is the opposition to them. Thats why they discuss raising the age now, so people get used to the idea before they do it. There is always someone whose going to be affected by shifting the goal posts. They need a mult-headed solution, not just raise the age, they also need asset testing. we could also use a capital gains tax, on secondary property, and get rid of family trusts. Theres no point in implementing only part of that strategy because the current system has too many loop holes. Good luck with that happening, because the govt that does this will be out. And the next govt will get in on promises to undo it. I pity the people who are counting on their kiwisaver fund to pay their rent in 2050.
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I pity the people who are counting on their kiwisaver fund to pay their rent in 2050.
Why, what happens to my Kiwisaver in 2050?
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Naitonal raids it to pay for another subsidy for a private school in 2045
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Your pittance contributions from 50 years ago are going to look rather anemic, in even the best case scenario. God forbid we are living longer too.
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In Australia they are looking to raise the minimum super contribution to %12 because its current level of %9 won't be enough for people to live on.
Now look at kiwisaver....
Gen Y in NZ is fucked long term.
High levels of debt, a pathetic amount of super and the burden of paying the healthcare costs of the baby boomers going into retirement who will live for along time passed 65
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I think you grossly misunderstand this issue.
The problem with implementation is that it has to be phased in, so that people who're 64 today aren't affected - or grey power will be on your front lawn with pitchforks and a stake to burn you at.
It is extremely relevant today, because our inaction now will cost us dearly down the track.
Appreciate your comments but I am aware that policies, in most cases need to be phased.
The main point I was making was to do with no political party is suggesting bringing the age in in the very near future, only about lowering it by a year or so - which still makes it close to 2020, when most discussion has been around what the super bill will look like by 2016
I dont go into big diatribes here as I dont see the point but I consider my original point still stands :)
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In Australia they are looking to raise the minimum super contribution to %12 because its current level of %9 won't be enough for people to live on.
Now look at kiwisaver....
Gen Y in NZ is $#@!ed long term.
High levels of debt, a pathetic amount of super and the burden of paying the healthcare costs of the baby boomers going into retirement who will live for along time passed 65
Thats not actually going to happen, health care is running at or above capacity, it'll get over laden, and old people will die. when a chunk of baby boomers die the burden will lift almost immediately, assets will change hands and the gen Y will inherit all they covet.
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But you need to look at who will be controlling the political system.
Who votes the most? Old people
Who will be one of the biggest population brackets when the Baby boomers reach retirement? Old people
Therefore old people issues aka Health care will become a massive political issue and the parties that can pander to the baby boomers the most will gain alot of political power.
The healthcare system will get far more attention when the boomers start caring about it, which is when they are scared of dying.
Therefore Gen Y during the peak of their productivity and earning potential will be under increasing pressure from higher taxes.
Meanwhile the housing market will crash because the baby boomers will be cashing in their assets for their retirement holidays, which will be too late for most of Gen Y because they will have already saddled themselves up with debt from overpriced housing that is now worth less than they brought it for.
There is still 15-20 years to go before the boomers start dying on mass their average life expectancy is now what around 80?
That takes most Gen Yers to around 45 before they are released from the healthcare burden.
And this pattern will be repeated across most Western nations so buckle up kids this economic bullshit is just getting started.
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That's as may be.
But who will look after your kids when they're driving you nuts?
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That's as may be.
But who will look after your kids when they're driving you nuts?
robots
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IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity. Theres no real reason a house should sell for more than land value + building value. And buildings deteriorate, not gain in value unless you've renovated. If we treated cars like houses, we would be spending $3k on a paintjob, and then be selling the car for $5k more than before the paintjob.
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IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity. Theres no real reason a house should sell for more than land value + building value. And buildings deteriorate, not gain in value unless you've renovated. If we treated cars like houses, we would be spending $3k on a paintjob, and then be selling the car for $5k more than before the paintjob.
step 1: Go to the rest of the world
step 2: try and find a house there that has the following:
-Within 10-20 minutes drive of a nice beach
-Within 10-20 minutes of a Major City Centre
-is off a main road and in a 'private' area
-is in an area with little crime
-has more than 1 bedroom
-is in a country that enjoys political stability
-has all the first world convieniances
-Has a medium to large backyard/section
Step 3: Realise that the Housing market in NZ is dirt cheap compared to international prices and so the housing market will never return to Sanity, because when Mr overseas immagrant can buy for the equivilent of a Palacial mansion for half to a third the price he would have to pay in his own country - the NZ housing market will continue to go up as it stops being under-valued....
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Step 1: Go to the rest of the world
Step 2: Try and find a house that wasn't built by shotty, cheap, short-cutting builders that leads to black mould and a cold, damp environment.
Step 3: Found one.
Fixed.
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Step 3: Realise that the Housing market in NZ is dirt cheap compared to international prices and so the housing market will never return to Sanity, because when Mr overseas immagrant can buy for the equivilent of a Palacial mansion for half to a third the price he would have to pay in his own country - the NZ housing market will continue to go up as it stops being under-valued....
South America?
Also the rich people are generally rich because they are working or running businesses in high income economies, they don't want to move to NZ because then they wouldn't be as rich.
So just because NZ is oh so awesome doesn't mean everyone is going to buy up all the housing, if the NZ public cant afford high rental prices then investor returns aren't going to be any better when buying 3 NZ houses compared a million dollar apartment in New York.
NZ to rich people from the worlds big cities is sort of like Vanuatu to us, its beautiful, cheap and quiet but you probably don't want to live there.
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robots
I can almost agree with that.
But robots don't got tits. Essential for many important tasks, some even to do with children.
Also, NZ housing market is retardedly over expensive compared to NZ income.
Of course over seas buyers can afford a mansion, their buying power is often doubled just by buying in NZ dollars.
And what Rii said.
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IMO the housing market should crash, and by crash i mean return to sanity.
Yes it should but as I said it will be far too late for most of Gen Y, they will end up with $500,000 loans on a house worth $300,000
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I can almost agree with that.
But robots don't got tits. Essential for many important tasks, some even to do with children.
not yet they dont - but im sure that someone will invent it - im looking at you japan
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I'd rather see house pricing drop because there's a shift in demand, a CGT will help dissuade speculators investing in property and into more interesting parts of the economy (but it'll probably just go to Dairy) stemming from good R&D.
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Last I checked overseas people have a string of hoops to leap through if they want to buy here. I don't think we really need to compete with an international market with housing, a couple of straightforward laws like other small island nations have already, and we're sorted.
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not yet they dont - but im sure that someone will invent it - im looking at you japan
But it will end up being china, and then the robots will fritter out like furby's and kill the children!
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lol, you think they are going to reach surplus. Next year in the budget they will revise the date to be another twelve months later.
Hey guys how is that surplus coming along?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7103387/Bollard-sees-delayed-surplus
OK so I guess I was wrong about how long until it was revised and how long until it would be predicted a surplus would occur. I wonder if treasury still believes their own lies?
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I love it when people rage about Muldoon, seeing every single one of his think big projects still runs today, in the black, and have directly employed thousands of people. His debts were at least on tangible things that made returns. What the $#@! have any governments since created ? (And no relabelling/branding/imaging do not count as creations).
Kiwibank???
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postbank relabelled.
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I just got an email from IRD about my student loan
What the shit? They're charging $40 a year for this?[/QUOTE]
Wow! After a decade the IRD have managed to physically track me down and send an actual letter updating me about my student loan situation.
But there seems to be some odd accounting.
(figures given are approximate)
Your Loan: $10,000
Loan Repayments: $4,000
Interest write off: $5,000
Balance Remaining: $1,000
WTF?!?! Can anyone explain this to me?
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I too would like to know how I can get half my loan wiped.
That would be... well into 5 figures though :P
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The feds finally tracked Tiwa down.
The wheels of just turn, but slowly.
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Wow! After a decade the IRD have managed to physically track me down and send an actual letter updating me about my student loan situation.
But there seems to be some odd accounting.
(figures given are approximate)
Your Loan: $10,000
Loan Repayments: $4,000
Interest write off: $5,000
Balance Remaining: $1,000
WTF?!?! Can anyone explain this to me?
What's odd about that?
$10,000
- $4,000
- $5,000
= $1,000
The numbers seam to add up to me. Are you taught to add up differently down south?
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What's odd about that?
$10,000
- $4,000
- $5,000
= $1,000
The numbers seam to add up to me. Are you taught to add up differently down south?
Loan Principal: $10,000
Interest: $0
Amount Repaid: $4000
Interest Write Off: $5000 (???)
Total Repayment Owing: $1000
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What's odd about that?
$10,000
- $4,000
- $5,000
= $1,000
The numbers seam to add up to me. Are you taught to add up differently down south?
Tiwa has repaid $4000 of a $10,000 loan, and only has $1000 remaining.
What kind of math do they teach in Auckland? What kind of English do they teach in Auckland??
They must be cracking down on us. I too was recently tracked down and reminded how much I owe.
(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9076/loana.jpg)
Ignorance (was) bliss.
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You, just like every body else, get's charged Interest on your student loan. It's always been like that since loans became Interest free.
The IRD then write off the Interest (if you stay in NZ).
What's odd about that?
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Tiwa has repaid $4000 of a $10,000 loan, and only has $1000 remaining.
What kind of math do they teach in Auckland? What kind of English do they teach in Auckland??
He had a $10,000 loan, which was $5000 he borrowed, and $5000 Interest payments (from what I can assume with the information he has provided).
He paid back $4000, and the IRD wrote off $5000.
He has $1000 left.
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He had a $10,000 loan, which was $5000 he borrowed, and $5000 Interest payments (from what I can assume with the information he has provided).
He paid back $4000, and the IRD wrote off $5000.
He has $1000 left.
You made way too many assumptions (http://www.getsome.co.nz/showthread.php?81100-Eulers-Programming-Puzzle&p=1491430&viewfull=1#post1491430).
I borrowed $10000
I repaid $4000
I now owe: $1000
In fact: I will provide you with the exact numbers:
Account Summary: Opening Balance (This is the amount I borrowed) $9,320.00
Total Repayments Made: $3,409.89
Interest Write Off: $5,274.92
Total Owing: $635.19
With accounting like this, no wonder New Zealands economy is in shambles.
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You, just like every body else, get's charged Interest on your student loan. It's always been like that since loans became Interest free.
The IRD then write off the Interest (if you stay in NZ).
What's odd about that?
Because no interest was added before it was written off -.-
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It's odd.
You could log into the IRD website and see what the balance is.
IRD website is pretty crap, but it's still a thousand times better then the stupid studylink website and it's passphrase.
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Good bye Voluntary Repayment Bonus!
Voluntary repayment bonus repealed
The voluntary repayment bonus has been repealed and will no longer be available from 1 April 2013. Any extra repayments previously made for student loan obligations for the 2010 to 2013 tax years (1 April 2009 to 31 March 2013) may still qualify for the 10% repayment bonus. Extra repayments made from 1 April 2013 onwards will no longer qualify for the bonus. However, these additional repayments will still help you pay off your student loan faster.
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Will help pay your loan off faster! That's just silly talk!
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There is now absolutely no reason to pay anything more then the minimum towards student loan. Additional repayments are like throwing money in the toilet.
Better sticking it in a savings account, earn some interest.
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Good bye Voluntary Repayment Bonus!
Wait, with that bonus, you could take out your Course Related Costs ($1000) and then put it straight back in to get the bonus?
That's a bit silly.
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Wait, with that bonus, you could take out your Course Related Costs ($1000) and then put it straight back in to get the bonus?
That's a bit silly.
Or spend it on tools.
That's what I did.
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I spent it on rent, because living costs don't cover it.
By now they must think I own 5 computers, when really I was just surviving.
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I spent it on rent, because living costs don't cover it.
By now they must think I own 5 computers, when really I was just surviving.
Was the same here, living costs fall short of rent.
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And really, that's the bulk of the loan.
Meanwhile everyone cheating the system with allowance... shit they don't gotta pay back.
If they really wanted to stop student bullshit, they'd just cut the allowance. Go loan or go home.
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If they really wanted to stop student bullshit, they'd just cut the allowance. Go loan or go home.
I agree. The student allowance should be cut completely, and the weekly living allowance (from the loan) should increased to compensate.
It doesn't effect a students financial situation in any way whether they have an allowance or loan, they still get the same amount of money in the pocket each week either way.
And once they are working full time, they can pay it back.
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teh $187 you can currently can borrow is a joke.
I get $247 a week for free, we're budgeting $50pw in my flat for all food, and bills (power and ninjanet) plus my rent is $105 (which is so fucking really low in chch outside of the hoods at the moment)
This year though I'm going 100% full time student, no part time weekend work, which should be interesting for my marks and for my lifestyle, usually I earned sort of $100 to $150 a week which was a nice little bit extra.
I might follow some leads and see if I can pick up some part time work, my current job finishes in a week, but I'm the only one trained to use the machine I use....soooooo???
I am about to go spend the bulk of my course related costs on a pair of solid, comfy new shoes, a weather proof rain jacket, new push bike helmet, and lights, I also need to do some work to my push bike too as it will be my main mode of transport this year.
I also bought a breadboard and some components, I'm also going to buy an arduino and a few breakout boards all for actual education and development of ideas.
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they still get the same amount of money in the pocket each week either way.
Whaaaat. The kids who got allowance got a dickload more expendable cash than I did. Enough to get a box of beer into them most nights of the week while I sat around sober and wondered how to make up the extra $15 that was needed for my rent (holiday jobs mostly).
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Yes, allowance does get a bit more, which is even more unfair.
I said the weekly loan payments should be increased to compensate.
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mmm, I agree.
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Thanks for giving information
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Expected an interesting semi-related factoid from Tiwa.
Am disappoint.
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Seems like tiwa's necros are on the down, and bot necros are on the up.
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This was a very intelligent bot.
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ok, now we have bots applying for student loans.
They'll still be smarter then most students.
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So anyway soon repayment goes up from 10% to 12%.
It's like an April fools joke, only not.
But hey, pay it off faster I guess.
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But hey, pay it off faster I guess.
And this is good how?
But anyway, it's only 2%, not much.
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Compulsory paying it back faster, while removing any benefit for voluntarily paying back faster
scumbag steve student loan policy
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PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!
Get back to studying!
The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest (http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest)
If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.
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PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!
Get back to studying!
The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".
[url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest[/url] ([url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest[/url])
If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.
Fucking arts students....
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Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh
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Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh
I got no problem with Student allowances, or even student loans, or even wiping someones student loan provided they got a job in the field that they studied, in NZ within a certain time period (which is my Idea).
I still have a problem with people that think that a university degree somehow is equal to 3-5 years work experience and that they should be able to jump straight into a job.
That said - I know of a friend who did costume design at uni - graduated at the top of the class, and did walk into a job in her field - everyone else in the class walked into a minimum wage job. There is something to be said about doing a degree that maybe has 1-2 job opportunities a year, in a class of 30-40, and then wondering why you can't get a job when you didn't finish at the top of your class.
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^Yeah have been working for years and now going to go to uni, doing things a bit backwards lol
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Without allowance I wouldn't be able to study tbh
I got no problem with Student allowances, or even student loans, or even wiping someones student loan provided they got a job in the field that they studied, in NZ within a certain time period (which is my Idea).
I still have a problem with people that think that a university degree somehow is equal to 3-5 years work experience and that they should be able to jump straight into a job.
That said - I know of a friend who did costume design at uni - graduated at the top of the class, and did walk into a job in her field - everyone else in the class walked into a minimum wage job. There is something to be said about doing a degree that maybe has 1-2 job opportunities a year, in a class of 30-40, and then wondering why you can't get a job when you didn't finish at the top of your class.
I think the government should scale fees, interest, loan caps, something, against the demand for jobs in that field as well as their own policies etc.
National is getting behind technology, science and engineering in New Zealand, as such it should be cheap as chips (but fucking hard) to get a degree in maths, science or engineering. And more expensive to get a degree in American Film History or Linguistics etc.
Bit of PID control and she'll be sweet.
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Fucking arts students....
Oi.
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I have no problem with someone choosing to study art.
What I have a problem with, is when, instead of studying, they go protest about stupid things.
Students have a pretty good deal in this country, probably better then anywhere else in the world. Uni fees are already heavily subsidized by the government. And for the remaining amount that students have to pay, the government gives them a free loan to pay it.
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PM John Key defends equality, and they're out on the street protesting!
Get back to studying!
The group, mostly made up of students, shouted rallying cries including "f... you, John Key" and "stop the war on the poor".
[url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest[/url] ([url]http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10052733/PM-John-Key-defends-equality-after-rowdy-protest[/url])
If students have enough free time to protest, then they should go get jobs, then they wouldn't be so poor.
The kids are alright. Let them have their fun.
1. Not accepting the premise that students face some greater obligation to get jobs than anyone else: a one-off event like a protest isn't equatable to the time required for even the most intermittent employment. If a student attends a number of protests throughout the year the total hours involved would be inconsequential, even at the margin.
2. I doubt these students are 'the poor' whose alleged victimisation they're protesting against, it would seem to be more of a show of support for those folks. Let's generalize that poor people ain't got no time for, or much interest in, protesting.
3. Why should a certain group in society (students) be limited in exercising their political freedoms? Why are students expected to spend their free time differently to others? Because that they're receiving taxpayer support (through subsidized tuition fees, income supplements or interest write-offs)? If so, what about the corresponding benefits of skilled labour on economic growth and why don't we hear of similar obligations for middle-class recipients of Working For Families? What about unhealthy people and the cost they place on the health system? Ad nauseum.
A bunch of students went out to protest against government policy, some crossed the line and got arrested. It's hardly the biggest burden on the tax system.
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I have a problem with some degrees (arts potentially being one of them)
Subsidized tertiary study should ONLY be available for courses which lead directly to employment. By all means let people do BA's in toenail clipping studies, but make them pay full price (IE what international students pay).
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So what you're saying is that people shouldn't think, wrote learn all the things and boom, everything will explode.
Sounds like high school. Who remembers that?
It sure gave me the necessary skills I needed to enter adult life (100% sarcasm).
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I have a problem with some degrees (arts potentially being one of them)
Subsidized tertiary study should ONLY be available for courses which lead directly to employment. By all means let people do BA's in toenail clipping studies, but make them pay full price (IE what international students pay).
Very few degrees lead directly to employment. You have to compete for almost any job.
What degrees provide good job prospects is a product of the state of the economy at a given time. Some jobs, of course, are more exposed when there's economic downturns. Other jobs are key drivers of economic innovation and growth (we see this reflected in the additional subsidies STEM receives).
We ought to be careful though, in thinking that 'arts' aren't worthwhile pursuits.
Here's what a majors are available for Bachelor of Arts degrees at Otago (http://www.otago.ac.nz/courses/qualifications/ba.html), Canterbury (http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/courses/undergrad/ba.shtml), Auckland (https://www.auckland.ac.nz/study-options/programmes/undergraduate/6207/bachelor-of-arts-ba) and Victoria (https://www.victoria.ac.nz/study/programmes-courses/undergraduates/bachelors-degrees/arts).
There's a lot of coherence between these offerings and occupations with fair to high job prospects according the the Department of Labour's Occupation Outlook (http://www.dol.govt.nz/publications/lmr/occupational-outlook/)
There is a case to be made that we over-subsidise tertiary studies, or that we have inefficient subsidies (like the blunt interest-free policy) which incentivise people into areas which are not very beneficial. Fine Arts would be the common exemplar used by some but there are some counter arguments from things like http://supportthearts.co.uk (http://supportthearts.co.uk). In short you might intimate the value of the Arts through the John Adams quote:
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
The idea is that, in the long-run, Arts' contribution to society and economy is to promote innovation and prevent cultural stagnation. That may not be sufficient to get us to fork out our cash though.
On the other hand, we still subsidise lots of things which are far less beneficial (http://nzinitiative.org.nz/site/nzbr/files/publications/publications-1999/should_governments_subsidise_stadiums_and_events.pdf)like stadiums, royal tours and yacht races. Maybe the discussion needs to shift away from cuts to education funding, towards cuts to funding extravagance?
Here's some figures nicked from Budget 2013 using wheresmytaxes.co.nz, they're quite nifty and are calucated on a per capita basis, to give you a more 'real' understanding of fiscal policy:
Government Incomes: $17,006 per capita
Includes:
$236.31 (⇧36%) Student Loans - Receipts
$131.89 (⇧22%) Interest on Impaired Student Loans
Government Expenses: $18,652 per capita
Includes:
$458.95 (⇧0.9%) Tertiary Education: Student Achievement Component
$134.39 (⇩8.1%) Student Allowances
$352.56 (⇩2.1%) Student Loans
We could save $563.69 by getting rid of the Defence forces (How much do they contribute to economic growth?. That'd cover the costs of Loans and Allowances, and leave $76.74 left over for expanding Civil Defence capability?
$76.64 (⇩3.3%) Naval Combat Forces
$76.08 (⇩8.0%) Land Combat Forces
$72.19 (⇧19%) New Zealand Defence Force - Capital Expenditure
$57.39 (⇧5.4%) Fixed Wing Transport Forces
$50.21 (⇧60%) Rotary Wing Transport Forces
$48.16 (⇧0.9%) Land Combat Support Forces
$41.36 (⇧11%) Airborne Surveillance and Response Forces
$37.80 (⇧5.3%) Land Combat Service Support Forces
$28.56 (⇩0.1%) Naval Patrol Forces
$22.61 (⇧0.1%) Naval Support Forces
$19.64 (⇧1.2%) Naval Helicopter Forces
$18.21 (⇧8.0%) Special Operations Forces
$14.84 (⇧10%) Operationally Deployed Forces Annual
Alternatively, we might start looking at something like Superannuation.
$2323.31 (⇧6.8%) New Zealand Superannuation
How much would that be reduced by means-testing?
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^This post is amazing
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Very few degrees lead directly to employment. You have to compete for almost any job.
That's a given.. But I strongly feel there are many degrees that we could trim the fat on.
What degrees provide good job prospects is a product of the state of the economy at a given time. Some jobs, of course, are more exposed when there's economic downturns. Other jobs are key drivers of economic innovation and growth (we see this reflected in the additional subsidies STEM receives).
We ought to be careful though, in thinking that 'arts' aren't worthwhile pursuits.
Some BA's are useful.. others not so much. But hardly the only tertiary study, and particularly "lower end" tertiary study (IE Wananga/Polytech courses) could REALLY do with some cutting.
Disclaimer: I have worked in tertiary for aprox 9 years across both Wananga and Polytechs.
There is a case to be made that we over-subsidise tertiary studies, or that we have inefficient subsidies (like the blunt interest-free policy) which incentivise people into areas which are not very beneficial. Fine Arts would be the common exemplar used by some but there are some counter arguments from things like [url]http://supportthearts.co.uk[/url] ([url]http://supportthearts.co.uk[/url]). In short you might intimate the value of the Arts through the John Adams quote:
I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
The idea is that, in the long-run, Arts' contribution to society and economy is to promote innovation and prevent cultural stagnation. That may not be sufficient to get us to fork out our cash though.
I'm okay with fine arts being available as courses, but think pretty much anything beyond a Level 100 paper should be at full cost.
On the other hand, we still subsidise lots of things which are far less beneficial ([url]http://nzinitiative.org.nz/site/nzbr/files/publications/publications-1999/should_governments_subsidise_stadiums_and_events.pdf[/url])like stadiums, royal tours and yacht races. Maybe the discussion needs to shift away from cuts to education funding, towards cuts to funding extravagance?
Here's some figures nicked from Budget 2013 using wheresmytaxes.co.nz, they're quite nifty and are calucated on a per capita basis, to give you a more 'real' understanding of fiscal policy:
Agree on Super.. needs to be means tested, and the age needs to be going upwards, and KEEP going upwards. 65 was the age of retirement when the average age of death was the low 70's. Now the average age is 80+, so the retirement age should be about 72-73, and keep moving up as the population keeps living longer.
Student loans need to be interest bearing again, and the government needs to take greater steps to recover recalcitrant expat debt. Like withdraw passports, have non payers extradited, etc.
Unemployment benefit need to be work for the dole, and needs to have a max timeframe (like 6 months)
Health funding also needs to be slashed. Start by withholding all care from non citizens who don't have private insurance. Means test public healthcare. End expensive drugs/operations/etc that only benefit a small number of people. Free public healthcare is a great thing, but it should be at a very basic level, and should be no substitute for private medical insurance.
Benefits, Health and Education account for roughly 60% of the budget. They are what needs slashing the most. I strongly disagree about slashing NZDF spending, but even if I did agree, it's 3% of the budget.
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It makes you think, eh!
Studying Arts has not given me (m)any answers, but it's helped me question things.
Does overall government spending need slashing or just different prioritization? Fiscal policy equates to around 30% of GDP. Is this because the government is spending too much to provide things which are not public goods, or is it a product of a small country where public infrastructure is always going to be a large chunk of GDP? Are taxes too high or are wages/salaries (and producitivity) too low?
This is what the Treasury uses as their framework for their goal of improving Living Standards for NZers (http://www.treasury.govt.nz/abouttreasury/higherlivingstandards):
(http://www.treasury.govt.nz/abouttreasury/higherlivingstandards/hlsframework.jpg)
Some fiscal policies promotes one at the expense of another, but some fiscal policies complement multiple dimensions.
1.I won't try to make sense of Wananga funding, because there's a number of constitutional issues there which are just messy to discuss on the internet. Roughly, there is an argument that the Wananga's purpose is not strictly providing education for jobs.
2.What's the cost of means-testing public healthcare versus the efficiency gain? Can the private system takeover where you propose cuts? Is the potential market large enough for competition and efficiency?
3.Does 'work for the dole' change behaviours? Could it help break cycles of welfare dependency and inter-generational unemployment? Why not a return to Department of Labour work schemes etc? Or might it be more efficient to simply continue making a cash transfer?
4.If we reduce availability of unemployment benefits, what does that mean for the ~5% of the population who will always be out of work as a result of natural market forces and macroeconomic policy (i.e. Phillips Curve)? Does the relative utility of crime increase and so incentivise more people to commit crime? Would the result be: privatising the cost that used to be picked up by the tax system (e.g. instead of paying Unemployment Benefit, people pay higher insurance premiums, have to purchase security systems/services, and also bear the cost of property-related crime like theft?).
5. Does the Defence Force actually provide a public good?
Or is that job now being increasingly performed by the MFAT (http://www.mfat.govt.nz/About-the-Ministry/Our-structure/index.php) and the GCSB (http://www.gcsb.govt.nz/our-work/Foreign-intelligence.html) (whose funding is not included in the figure I put up before and whose combined cost per capita equaled $228.81 last year - but came with all (http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/index.php) the (http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Foreign-Relations/index.php) other (http://www.ncsc.govt.nz/about-us/) services (http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Trade-and-Economic-Relations/index.php) that both agencies provide).
6.That ~3% is a lot of money!
a.It's more than half of what we raised through Asset Sales last year.
b.It could offset what we're spending on Loans, Allowances and Fee-subsidies
c. It could be equal to a 57% increase in spending for Early Childhood Education (which is actually the best value-for-money area in Education we can spend on; it would boost mid-run economic growth substantially)
d.Phrased another way, we might look at the Value of Statistical Life (http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Research/Documents/Social-Cost-of-Road-Crashes-and-Injuries-June-2013-update.pdf) that the Ministry of Transport uses when determining how much money to spend to make our roads safe; 519 less deaths if we took $2bn from the NZDF and put it into roads.
How many people did the NZDF save in New Zealand last year?
You could of course argue that by employing 13,544 people (http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/public-docs/2013/executive-overview-of-the-defence-force.pdf), they're a very expensive work-for-dole scheme. But I think we could do something a bit more efficient.
7.Finally, the point I want to make with this post is: Market economies are impressive in their productive capability, and generate massive amounts of surplus, but they need to be competitive to do this and; they can struggle to provide public goods (like health, defence) and; they don't address equity or justice very well and; the New Zealand market economy exists in, and depends on, a political environment which does value justice and equity.
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Pretty much what Lias started to say, but then nothing Lias actually said at all.
Then pretty much everything Hori said.
With the added point that paying for heathcare is a fucking farce. Look at the condition it's put America in.
Fuck that. That's pretty much why we pay tax.
On the other hand the UK's NI system is a fucking farce too. So much sloppy uncaring bullshit it's just redonk.
Neither is good, and while NZ's not great, it's an almost happy medium.
There's a reason everyone thinks ACC are cunts. It's because they're not paying out for everything blind.
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Does overall government spending need slashing or just different prioritization? Fiscal policy equates to around 30% of GDP. Is this because the government is spending too much to provide things which are not public goods, or is it a product of a small country where public infrastructure is always going to be a large chunk of GDP? Are taxes too high or are wages/salaries (and producitivity) too low?
Absolutely needs cutting. I'm very much a fan of small government, not bloated bureaucracy.
1.I won't try to make sense of Wananga funding, because there's a number of constitutional issues there which are just messy to discuss on the internet. Roughly, there is an argument that the Wananga's purpose is not strictly providing education for jobs.
I'd disagree, the purpose of Wananga is to provide an alternative educational system (to whit a holistic whanau based approach rooted in maori culture and tradition), but it's end goal is still to upskill and educate people for the work force.
2.What's the cost of means-testing public healthcare versus the efficiency gain? Can the private system takeover where you propose cuts? Is the potential market large enough for competition and efficiency?
Without access to a lot of numbers I don't have access too, it's just speculation. I suspect we could save a lot of money thou.
3.Does 'work for the dole' change behaviours? Could it help break cycles of welfare dependency and inter-generational unemployment? Why not a return to Department of Labour work schemes etc? Or might it be more efficient to simply continue making a cash transfer?
It won't change behaviours for all, but for some nothing will. It might be cheaper in the long run to just keep giving them "free money" but your never going to break those cycles you talk about doing that. "Work for Dole", work schemes, public labour battalions, workhouses whatever you want as long as they are not just sitting around doing nothing.
4.If we reduce availability of unemployment benefits, what does that mean for the ~5% of the population who will always be out of work as a result of natural market forces and macroeconomic policy (i.e. Phillips Curve)? Does the relative utility of crime increase and so incentivise more people to commit crime? Would the result be: privatising the cost that used to be picked up by the tax system (e.g. instead of paying Unemployment Benefit, people pay higher insurance premiums, have to purchase security systems/services, and also bear the cost of property-related crime like theft?).
We're in the realm of speculation here, but my belief is our system should be like Singapore's (in many areas actually, not just unemployment).
5. Does the Defence Force actually provide a public good?
Or is that job now being increasingly performed by the MFAT ([url]http://www.mfat.govt.nz/About-the-Ministry/Our-structure/index.php[/url]) and the GCSB ([url]http://www.gcsb.govt.nz/our-work/Foreign-intelligence.html[/url]) (whose funding is not included in the figure I put up before and whose combined cost per capita equaled $228.81 last year - but came with all ([url]http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Treaties-and-International-Law/index.php[/url]) the ([url]http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Foreign-Relations/index.php[/url]) other ([url]http://www.ncsc.govt.nz/about-us/[/url]) services ([url]http://www.mfat.govt.nz/Trade-and-Economic-Relations/index.php[/url]) that both agencies provide).
6.That ~3% is a lot of money!
a.It's more than half of what we raised through Asset Sales last year.
b.It could offset what we're spending on Loans, Allowances and Fee-subsidies
c. It could be equal to a 57% increase in spending for Early Childhood Education (which is actually the best value-for-money area in Education we can spend on; it would boost mid-run economic growth substantially)
d.Phrased another way, we might look at the Value of Statistical Life ([url]http://www.transport.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/Research/Documents/Social-Cost-of-Road-Crashes-and-Injuries-June-2013-update.pdf[/url]) that the Ministry of Transport uses when determining how much money to spend to make our roads safe; 519 less deaths if we took $2bn from the NZDF and put it into roads.
How many people did the NZDF save in New Zealand last year?
You could of course argue that by employing 13,544 people ([url]http://www.nzdf.mil.nz/downloads/pdf/public-docs/2013/executive-overview-of-the-defence-force.pdf[/url]), they're a very expensive work-for-dole scheme. But I think we could do something a bit more efficient.
If we didn't have a defence force, you and I would not be sitting here discussing this, we'd be living in slave labour camps and speaking Japanese. But as for the value of NZDF training and the values it instills in people, pretty much all of the people I know who I consider to be GREAT human beings, have served in the armed forced of this or another country.
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Singapore had the vision to attract overseas investment into it's economic growth as a country, not just to use and abuse them as a slave labour camp.
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It makes you think, eh!
Studying Arts has not given me (m)any answers, but it's helped me question things.
The supreme end of education is expert discernment in all things--the power to tell the good from the bad, the genuine from the counterfeit, and to prefer the good and the genuine to the bad and the counterfeit.
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Just wanted to post up some information I got from an email I ignored about Student Loans
Living overseas or thinking about it?
Don't forget, interest is charged on your student loan if you're overseas for six months or more. So it's important to keep on top of your loan while you're away. It's also important to let us know if you'll be overseas for more than six months.
Paying a student loan from overseas? This could help
These law changes will actually help you pay off your loan sooner:
Your annual repayment obligation is now based on whatever your loan balance was on 31 March 2014. If you left New Zealand after this date, it'll be based on your loan balance on your date of departure.
Your repayments won't reduce as your loan balance decreases - which means you'll be able to pay off your loan sooner.
If you have a loan balance over $45,000, your repayment obligation will go up. So you'll need to increase your repayments. But you'll pay off more of your loan each year.
Are you seriously behind with your repayments and haven't recently talked to us about it? Remember that might mean you may be stopped from leaving New Zealand if you come home for a visit. So it's important you talk to us before this happens - remember, we're here to help.
Spend less repaying your loan from overseas
It's now even easier - and cheaper - with our new fee-free payment options.
And don't forget, the due dates for your student loan payments are 30 September and 31 March.
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You thinking about going overseas Tiwa?
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You thinking about going overseas Tiwa?
No. I was just interested in the "you may be stopped from leaving New Zealand if you come home for a visit" part.
I thought they were changing something important about the Student Loan but nope: Same old 0% interest. The same amount of interest I have in paying it back
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These are the kind of emails I ignore;
(http://iforce.co.nz/i/dt0tcyyc.udk.jpg)
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Just wanted to post up some information I got from an email I ignored about Student Loans
Living overseas or thinking about it?
Don't forget, interest is charged on your student loan if you're overseas for six months or more. So it's important to keep on top of your loan while you're away. It's also important to let us know if you'll be overseas for more than six months.
Paying a student loan from overseas? This could help
These law changes will actually help you pay off your loan sooner:
Your annual repayment obligation is now based on whatever your loan balance was on 31 March 2014. If you left New Zealand after this date, it'll be based on your loan balance on your date of departure.
Your repayments won't reduce as your loan balance decreases - which means you'll be able to pay off your loan sooner.
If you have a loan balance over $45,000, your repayment obligation will go up. So you'll need to increase your repayments. But you'll pay off more of your loan each year.
Are you seriously behind with your repayments and haven't recently talked to us about it? Remember that might mean you may be stopped from leaving New Zealand if you come home for a visit. So it's important you talk to us before this happens - remember, we're here to help.
Spend less repaying your loan from overseas
It's now even easier - and cheaper - with our new fee-free payment options.
And don't forget, the due dates for your student loan payments are 30 September and 31 March.
Fucking government.
Overseas for just under 6 months (because earning interest > charged interest).
Pay off student loan with massive lump sum.
Get statment showing $0.00 owed.
A month later, get a bill for $1500 interest.
How the fuck does 0.00 accrue that much interest?
Especially in what could be no less than a week if the dates were off bit a little bit? (they weren't)
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A Kiwi living overseas who ignored requests to repay his student loan has been arrested at the New Zealand border after returning home for a visit - the first time the hardline sanction has been used.
Bahahaha, good job.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650)
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Yeah I saw that and zero fucks were given lol.
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A Kiwi living overseas who ignored requests to repay his student loan has been arrested at the New Zealand border after returning home for a visit - the first time the hardline sanction has been used.
Bahahaha, good job.
[url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650[/url] ([url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650[/url])
Good job! Yes it's a struggle to live while repaying a student loan. Just because people skip off overseas doesnt mean they dont have to repay the funds they borrowed for their qualifications.
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Fucking government.
Overseas for just under 6 months (because earning interest > charged interest).
Pay off student loan with massive lump sum.
Get statment showing $0.00 owed.
A month later, get a bill for $1500 interest.
How the fuck does 0.00 accrue that much interest?
Especially in what could be no less than a week if the dates were off bit a little bit? (they weren't)
IRD is run by accounting students who pay back their student loans by charging them to other people with student loans. I thought everybody knew that.
A Kiwi living overseas who ignored requests to repay his student loan has been arrested at the New Zealand border after returning home for a visit - the first time the hardline sanction has been used.
Bahahaha, good job.
[url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650[/url] ([url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577650[/url])
We are concerned that this will turn those who are overseas with student loans into permanent refugees
They could always go to Germany. Germans love Kiwi's. Germans love Refugees. Kiwi Refugees would probably be automatic citizenship
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http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577974 (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577974)
He said his plan was never to rack up a huge debt and then ignore it after graduating but accepted he was in the wrong for not keeping in touch with the IRD.
Though he was committed to making repayments he said he had a $300,000 mortgage to think about.
This guy must live in some fantasy world.
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[url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577974[/url] ([url]http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11577974[/url])
He said his plan was never to rack up a huge debt and then ignore it after graduating but accepted he was in the wrong for not keeping in touch with the IRD.
Though he was committed to making repayments he said he had a $300,000 mortgage to think about.
This guy must live in some fantasy world.
He had been given a $40,000 loan while studying a Bachelor of Arts
Whomever approved that loan should be shot
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Its interesting to see how it has come full circle and Post Graduate papers can get student allowance again. Why they took that away I'll never know. That does mean some people will just carry on doing papers for another year after they graduate, just in case they cant get a job.
These are the kind of emails I ignore;
([url]http://iforce.co.nz/i/dt0tcyyc.udk.jpg[/url])
How did Google know who I was?
How did Google know who YOU were?
HOW DOES GOOGLE KNOW THESE THINGS?!?!
#ProjectDragonfly