Get Some
General => General Chat => Topic started by: GhostOfGallipoli on March 07, 2009, 07:43:19 am
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i completely agree with this, well maybe not jail....but im sick of doing my job under the law...and getting nothing but lies and abuse back from shitty parents who dont get why buying GTA for little 11 year old timmy is a bad thing
Call to jail parents who break video game age limits
By GREER MCDONALD - The Dominion Post
Parents who give their underage children access to violent video games should be prosecuted to serve as "shock value" to other families, says chief censor Bill Hastings.
Laws around video games were "an even stricter regime than alcohol", because if an adult gives a child aged under 18 access to a restricted video game even in their own home they are breaking the law, he said.
Mr Hastings told The Dominion Post yesterday that if someone was caught knowingly allowing a child access to restricted video games such as the R-18 Grand Theft Auto series they could be punished by up to three months' imprisonment or a fine of up to $10,000.
"They might think the offence is silly, but it ain't".
No-one had yet been prosecuted under the law, but Mr Hastings said there could be merit in a parent being charged.
"That's what the law says, but . . . you're not going to have police officers in every bedroom ... There would certainly be some shock value to prosecuting a parent who gives their under-18 child access to a restricted game. It would send out a message that the enforcement agency means business."
Mr Hastings said studies had shown that repeated exposure to violence and sexual violence had an adverse effect on attitude, and it was important that parents realised some games were created for adults not children.
"I think the word 'game' can mislead people for sure. It's not checkers.
"For the first time in history, kids are more savvy with technology than parents ... parents need to get up to speed on the digital divide. They need to look at what their kids are playing and doing," he said.
"The fear of getting caught shouldn't be the motivating factor for you obeying the laws.
"It should be the pleasure in being able to sleep at night knowing that you have done the right thing by your kids. That should be the motivating factor."
Mr Hastings said video-game makers appeared to be steering away from extreme graphic sadism, as seen in the first video game to be banned in New Zealand, Manhunt.
Players of Manhunt take on the role of a character and gain points depending on the level of violence used to kill opponents, who are suffocated, repeatedly beaten, slashed, stabbed and decapitated.
Mr Hastings said parents were often hampered in educating themselves about video-game ratings because of out-of-date legislation, which meant many titles slipped onto New Zealand shelves without a rating.
Although all films and DVDs must be rated, electronic games such as those played on PlayStation or Xbox consoles do not need to go through the classification process unless they have objectionable material, he said.
Mr Hastings said he intended to ask the Internal Affairs Ministry to repeal parts of the Films, Videos and Publications Classification Act, drafted in 1993, so that all video games receive classification.
Internal Affairs Minister Richard Worth said he provisionally supported the chief censor's view.
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i guess you cant show the parents scenes from gta 4 in store either because there are people under 18 present as well
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ah yes "its for me not my son" speel.
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i completely agree with this, well maybe not jail....but im sick of doing my job under the law...and getting nothing but lies and abuse back from shitty parents who dont get why buying GTA for little 11 year old timmy is a bad thing
Well it all boils down to this:
Why put ratings on games?
Protect childrenz? Bullshit
Educate populace? Bullshit
Make more money from games by setting up arbitrary guidelines and force publishers to either sign up or die? Exactly right
It happened with movies and music and when games got lumped with it it happened again
Its like no one ever learns
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I agree. But I don't know if the age limit should be 18 for video games like gta it should probably be more like 16. If they are old enough to have kids and drive a car they're old enough to play gta imo.
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+1. Laws got to change somewhere but I'd love to see them try to 'enforce' this one ghost.
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I agree. But I don't know if the age limit should be 18 for video games like gta it should probably be more like 16. If they are old enough to have kids and drive a car they're old enough to play gta imo.
they are not old enough to have kids, and in a most cases drive a car. that is just the law.
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So, this guy thinks it's a good idea to just put one person in jail (a punishment faaaaaaaaaaaar greater than the crime) just to make a point?
"Sending out a message" by grossly victimising one person, while all the rest get a slap on the wrist is so unfair it's not funny.
It's a brute force tactic that looks good on paper, but it's far from "right" in practice.
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I agree. But I don't know if the age limit should be 18 for video games like gta it should probably be more like 16. If they are old enough to have kids and drive a car they're old enough to play gta imo.
But they are not old enough to drink or buy cigerettes and are not classed as an adult or allowed to view pornographic material (which GTA contains). IMO more things should be age restricted.
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age restrictions globally are pretty fucked,
in NZ at 16 you can have sex but can't watch it, in the US a female can star in porn and take massive bukkake loads on her face whilst getting a massive cock in her ass, but she can't drink a beer.
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This dude reminds me of that Jack Thompson dude.
Bull fucking shit videogames make you more violent.
Sure, I rage at games, I get fucking angry, so angry that I break expensive shit, but if it wasn't BF2 it would be something else.
There is no great benefit on this age restriction. At most I think GTA should be MA15+ (or what ever the NZ equivalent is)
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Have you ever tried keeping the names and security camera pictures of all people who purchase games "for themselves" with their little kids present, take the list to a police station and saying you have reason to believe they are breaking the law?
I mean, it's a bit overboard, but if you feel that seriously about it... I wouldn't do it myself :P
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I agree.
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Have you ever tried keeping the names and security camera pictures of all people who purchase games "for themselves" with their little kids present, take the list to a police station and saying you have reason to believe they are breaking the law?
Thats not the point though. A function of Ghost's job is to police games sales
Its ridiculous. He shouldnt have to do it. But if he doesnt do it, who will? In fact: Who CARES?
So somewhere, someone thought it would be a good idea to label all the 'bad' games. Parents see it and are meant to not buy them for their children, but they do it anyway. Ghost calls them on it and they scream "Arsehole!"
I never thought that being part of the game/entertainment sales industry benefited from experience in being a traffic warden too
Im surprised that this hasnt generated more views since its similar to the ISP policing piracy bollocks
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age restrictions globally are pretty fucked,
in NZ at 16 you can have sex but can't watch it
haha +1
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Have you ever tried keeping the names and security camera pictures of all people who purchase games "for themselves" with their little kids present, take the list to a police station and saying you have reason to believe they are breaking the law?
I mean, it's a bit overboard, but if you feel that seriously about it... I wouldn't do it myself :P
It's a tad overboard - unless you have conclusive proof that the games purchased are for the minors who have accompanied the adult, you'll be forwarding quite a list on a regular basis. Many parents take their children out when theyre shopping and pop into stores/rentals and make their purchases.
Thats not the point though. A function of Ghost's job is to police games sales
Its ridiculous. He shouldnt have to do it. But if he doesnt do it, who will? In fact: Who CARES?
So somewhere, someone thought it would be a good idea to label all the 'bad' games. Parents see it and are meant to not buy them for their children, but they do it anyway. Ghost calls them on it and they scream "Arsehole!"
I never thought that being part of the game/entertainment sales industry benefited from experience in being a traffic warden too
Im surprised that this hasnt generated more views since its similar to the ISP policing piracy bollocks
It is hard for companies that SELL games to police the sale. It's alot easier for rentals to be policed as when you become a member you do agree to the stores T&C which includes their policies on renting age restricted material to underage persons.
I know rental stores have the Film Classification warnings and penalties clearly displayed in their stores to that members are fully aware of the penalties for any breach of the Film Classification Act.
there isnt really a way to police this from a Sales point of view as you cannot actually prove the items purchased will be used by minors. If you kick up too much of a fuss you lose customers which means a loss in revenue, if youre too laid back word gets out and the store is liable. the only way to really get the message across is by advising the purchaser of their obligations- other than that there isnt much you can do.
How would one police who was playing/watching what without invading a persons home on a daily basis?
Also alot of games that arrive have a different rating which get changed as soon as they hit nz shores. When GTA first came out it came with a rating of m15. two days later i was pulling them off the shelves and slapping R18 labels on them as advised by the classification board. You can always try and dispute the rating with the distributors and the nz film commision but that really doesnt work much.
I always got around shitty parents by calmly explaining the penalties and consequences of renting to underage persons and show them the penalties and fines display from the Film Classification board - most of them understand once they realise the hefty fines you and they are liable for. Also making them aware of the content helps too as alot of older parents are really clueless and will accept the old "but its cool mum and everyone else has watched it" line. I had one irate dad whos 12 year old was trying to rent not another teen movie so i pulled him into the office and played him the opening scene of her and the dildo - he put it back on the shelf
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This dude reminds me of that Jack Thompson dude.
This guy is if I recall correctly, a somewhat hardcore christian...you'd think someone in his position would have to be religilously neutral.
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How would one police who was playing/watching what without invading a persons home on a daily basis?
Ban anyone who doesnt sound like they are over the age of 15 from the server
I'll never understand why the underages like to use voice chat
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Because it's so "cool".
And because they know it annoys older people.
And nobody wants to talk to them IRL. For a reason.
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Ban anyone who doesnt sound like they are over the age of 15 from the server
I'll never understand why the underages like to use voice chat
that fairy guy has a higher pitch voice... would you ban him?
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I got kicked from a TF2 server once for thinking some fat girl was a 13 y/o boy.
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that fairy guy has a higher pitch voice... would you ban him?
ROFL smart arse
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freedom of speech.
violent video games dont cause problems.
toughen the fuck up ghost, welcome to the pit of shit job that is retail
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ROFL smart arse
:/
wasn't really trying to be... more raising the question of "young... or female?"
Then again, everyone knows there's no girls on the internets...
(actually being smartarse this time...)
:P
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freedom of speech.
violent video games dont cause problems.
toughen the fuck up ghost, welcome to the pit of shit job that is retail
In a perfect world, I could agree with you. But in this flawed world where video games are the Evil Empire, this sort of shit needs to exist, soley to preserve my ability to purchase Japanese hardcore rape simulators. Or games like Manhunt.
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In a perfect world, I could agree with you. But in this flawed world where video games are the Evil Empire, this sort of shit needs to exist, soley to preserve my ability to purchase Japanese hardcore rape simulators. Or games like Manhunt.
ahaha, evil empire? you realise this is a gaming forum right? and that you play these games? sounds like someone has Stockholm Syndrome...
but you can't say "in a perfect world" that's like the biggest cop out ever man, it's like saying "if we could divide by 0"
games like manhunt are art, you think manhunt is fucked up? art has been fucked up for centuries...
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ahaha, evil empire? you realise this is a gaming forum right? and that you play these games? sounds like someone has Stockholm Syndrome...
but you can't say "in a perfect world" that's like the biggest cop out ever man, it's like saying "if we could divide by 0"
games like manhunt are art, you think manhunt is fucked up? art has been fucked up for centuries...
Hmmm, so the options are I have Stockholm Syndrome, or you didn't understand what I said. Hmmm, haaa, pretty sure it's not the first.
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Hmmm, so the options are I have Stockholm Syndrome, or you didn't understand what I said. Hmmm, haaa, pretty sure it's not the first.
yeah I use stockholm syndrone somewhat loosely, you are a gamer who is sympathetic to game developers yet you label them evil.
as opposed to a hostage who is sympathetic to their captor who they may label evil.
all this because the internet is exactly the same as a hostage situation lol
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yeah I use stockholm syndrone somewhat loosely, you are a gamer who is sympathetic to game developers yet you label them evil.
as opposed to a hostage who is sympathetic to their captor who they may label evil.
all this because the internet is exactly the same as a hostage situation lol
Ok, you need to be corrected.
The Evil Empire joke was refering to the fact that morons blame things like video games for societies inadequacy. These idiots are not going to stop bleating about how games that feature any adult content are evil and wicked, so I would prefer that they are pacified by a rating system that doesn't effect me, as opposed to banning "adult" games.
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These idiots are not going to stop bleating about how games that feature any adult content are evil and wicked, so I would prefer that they are pacified by a rating system that doesn't effect me, as opposed to banning "adult" games.
Shame they don't bleat about Rugby. That's got a whole lot more real world violence than any computer game!
....or cigarettes, alcohol, driving, drugs, not being able to assault their children, Harry Potter etc and cetera.
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Wanna talk violence?
Ice hockey. There's gotta be a punchup every day.
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Ok, you need to be corrected.
The Evil Empire joke was refering to the fact that morons blame things like video games for societies inadequacy. These idiots are not going to stop bleating about how games that feature any adult content are evil and wicked, so I would prefer that they are pacified by a rating system that doesn't effect me, as opposed to banning "adult" games.
ohhhhhh....well that's fair enough...
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In a perfect world, I could agree with you. But in this flawed world where video games are the Evil Empire, this sort of shit needs to exist, soley to preserve my ability to purchase Japanese hardcore rape simulators. Or games like Manhunt.
QFT
Id generally agree too Bounty but we got to to step in somewhere, besides Chinese rape simulators are 22.5% less expensive than the Jap ones arnifix stated so Im all up with it.
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Shame they don't bleat about Rugby. That's got a whole lot more real world violence than any computer game!
....or cigarettes, alcohol, driving, drugs, not being able to assault their children, Harry Potter etc and cetera.
I want to reply but I'm drinking bourbon and listening to Leonard Cohen so....
I have a suspicion that tomorrow i'll find i replied to a random post :/
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a) what is your store policy and where do they draw the line.
Do they provide clear guidelines over when a store should and should not sell to a parent?
b) what is the actual law regarding retailers selling games to parents even if there is a suspicion that the parent will let their child play that game.
It sounds like the current law is a fucking mockery, almost a legal absurdity. You can exercise discretion as a parent in letting your child drink alcohol and watch r18 movies but you cannot let them ever play r18 videogames
c) We already accept limitations placed on our children viewing pornography and violence. It is not exactly unreasonable to extend this to video games where the participant has more control over what happens on screen. Watching violence versus creating violence.
So we cant deny that age limits on video games do play an important role in guiding our childrens development.
d) Is policing parents the best way to do this?
hell no, its a logistical nightmare coupled with an attack on parental discretion. It opens up a whole new set of problems.
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This guy is if I recall correctly, a somewhat hardcore christian...you'd think someone in his position would have to be religilously neutral.
You can't choose somebody for a job (even this job) based on their religion...
He has obviously been chosen for his ability to make fair, impartial and logical decisions, and judging from what he has said in terms of the age restriction he seems to be doing his job.
Jail is a bit harsh (as Zara said), but the point he is getting at, which is that excessively violent games shouldn't be available to younger kids is correct.
I don't have a problem with your average FPS, as long as the kids playing are at least 14sh, but excessive violence (ie manhunt...) should definitely be restricted. How to enforce it? I don't think you can really, apart from (hate using cliches) educating parents.
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Sensible Comments
Agree with your c & d. Not sure if I agree with point b (it is also a criminal offence to allow under 18s to watch R18 movies).
This dude reminds me of that Jack Thompson dude.
Jack Thompson: Self appointed attention seeking lawyer (now disbarred).
Bill Hastings: Government appointed chief censor (first by National, then by Labour), a lawyer with significant academic credentials.
This guy is if I recall correctly, a somewhat hardcore christian...you'd think someone in his position would have to be religilously neutral.
I've met him and I think its highly unlikely that he is a "hardcore" christian, and he has been regularly attacked by "hardcore" christians:
Apart from his professional role, some have taken issue with one aspect of his personal life in particular: Hastings is openly gay. Some of these critics include the Society for the Promotion of Community Standards; convicted paedophile Graham Capill, former Leader of the Christian Heritage Party; Brian Tamaki in the "Media: The New Witchcraft" section of a DVD produced by the Destiny Church for the 2005 general election; Peter Brown MP, Deputy Leader of the New Zealand First Party; and Pastor Ralph Ovadal's Pilgrims Covenant Church, a fundamentalist Christian church in Monroe, Wisconsin.
Why put ratings on games?
Protect childrenz? Bullshit
Educate populace? Bullshit
Make more money from games by setting up arbitrary guidelines and force publishers to either sign up or die? Exactly right
Could you explain your theory on this? Who is making money out of the ratings scheme, and how?
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I want to reply but I'm drinking bourbon and listening to Leonard Cohen so....
I have a suspicion that tomorrow i'll find i replied to a random post :/
After that potent mix I hope you're still around tomorrow (today)!
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I've met him and I think its highly unlikely that he is a "hardcore" christian, and he has been regularly attacked by "hardcore" christians:
All good then, guess I was misled at some point
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Could you explain your theory on this? Who is making money out of the ratings scheme, and how?
Awww do I have to??
I've got an assignment due on Tuesday, can you wait til Friday?
Unless someone else wants to do it for me
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Awww do I have to??
I've got an assignment due on Tuesday, can you wait til Friday?
Unless someone else wants to do it for me
It's probably easier to get an extension from me ;)
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some angry 14 year old just neg repped lol
i still wont sell you GTA dude
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Awww do I have to??
no you dont, because you're wrong
no ratings = being able to sell the game to anyone, ie a much bigger market
having a game restricted restricts the market that can buy it
would've thought this obvious
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for gods sake are we such pussys these days? i was seven when me and my mate got into half life back in the 90s, jeez.
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for gods sake are we suck pussys these days? i was seven when me and my mate got into half life back in the 90s, jeez.
is GTA IV suitable for a 10 year old?
yes
no
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for gods sake are we such pussys these days? i was seven when me and my mate got into half life back in the 90s, jeez.
There is just a leetle difference between HL and GTA:IV...
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for gods sake are we such pussys these days? i was seven when me and my mate got into half life back in the 90s, jeez.
You are 100% correct.
Video games do have an adverse effect on children
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Could you explain your theory on this? Who is making money out of the ratings scheme, and how?
Government; see below.
Awww do I have to??
no you dont, because you're wrong
no ratings = being able to sell the game to anyone, ie a much bigger market
having a game restricted restricts the market that can buy it
would've thought this obvious
I disagree. Most kids will get a hold of the game anyway, the parents can just buy it with the child absent at the time. Same with alcohol.
The only place ratings are effective is in the movie theatre itself, where the child actually has to be present for obvious reasons... unless you're trying to smuggle one in in your backpack... o.0
And anyway...
He already did explain.
In post number four.
http://forums.iconzarena.com/showpost.php?p=899683&postcount=4
Well it all boils down to this:
Why put ratings on games?
Protect childrenz? Bullshit
Educate populace? Bullshit
Make more money from games by setting up arbitrary guidelines and force publishers to either sign up or die? Exactly right
It happened with movies and music and when games got lumped with it it happened again
Its like no one ever learns
The government charges to get games rated.
If a publisher wants to market their game inside the country, they first need to have it reviewed and rated. This costs money. Lots of money.
As opposed to the alternative; where pretty much the same amount of people buy the game, and that's it. The only 'extra' profit coming from here is the absense of the cost of getting the game reviewed and rated.
amirite tiwa?
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I disagree. Most kids will get a hold of the game anyway, the parents can just buy it with the child absent at the time. Same with alcohol.
The only place ratings are effective is in the movie theatre itself, where the child actually has to be present for obvious reasons... unless you're trying to smuggle one in in your backpack... o.0
To some extent... I do see a lot of games being bought for children by their parents, but I can also think of several scenarios in my own childhood where me and my friends were prevented from playing games that were way too old for us because we weren't old enough..and our parents were too smart to buy them for us.
So the ratings do have some effect, how much is debatable.
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The government charges to get games rated.
If a publisher wants to market their game inside the country, they first need to have it reviewed and rated. This costs money. Lots of money.
HUGE amounts of money. So much money that there has never been a transparent track of the amount of money spent on just rating a game.
As opposed to the alternative; where pretty much the same amount of people buy the game, and that's it. The only 'extra' profit coming from here is the absense of the cost of getting the game reviewed and rated.
In the realm of games ratings, NZ is a backwood little hick town. We just follow the crowd
Ultimately the ESRB(Entertainment Software Rating Board) control ALL game ratings
A quick trip over to their website(http://www.esrb.org/index-js.jsp) presents you with a short overview of the ESRB
The ESRB is a non-profit, self-regulatory body that independently assigns ratings, enforces advertising guidelines, and helps ensure responsible online privacy practices for the interactive online software industry
This sounds nice, concise and is full of lies
1) ESRB is non-profit: You pay them more, they'll rate your game lower. This is counter to the 'non-profit' ideology
2) ESRB is self-regulatory: No. Games Publishers are self-regulatory. The ESRB is the overlord, the absentee landlord, the presiders of the rotten boroughs. They are there to get a handout
3) INDEPENDENTLY ASSIGNS RATINGS: Once again, this ties into MONEY. Will the ESRB rate an EA game less harshly than one from Rando-Publisher house? Yes. Yes they will.
Also, the unstated LAW OF OUTRAGE AWESOMEOCITY
Shock sells. Outrage sells. NWA, Eminem, S.O.A.D(Minus Toxicity) all have the 'bad' label. Kids will snap that shit up. The minor fee you pay to the ESRB is nothing compared to the amount of capital you can generate by slapping the infamous "Parental Advisory" label on a game or album
edit: Some interesting links.
ESRB on the Defense - http://www.edge-online.com/news/esrb-defense
Court Terminates Schwarzenegger's violent videogame ban - http://www.3news.co.nz/Court-Terminates-Schwarzeneggers-violent-videogame-ban/tabid/209/articleID/92390/cat/310/Default.aspx?ArticleID=92390
ESRB: Utah Measure "Senseless" - http://www.edge-online.com/news/esrb-utah-measure-senseless
p.s I hate censorship
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^ isn't there a documentary out where they investigate the so called 'independent' board?
"this film is not yet rated" iirc.
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US is not NZ
we dont have the ESRB
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HUGE amounts of money. So much money that there has never been a transparent track of the amount of money spent on just rating a game.
The fees for classifying publications are set down in the Films, Videos, and Publications Classifcation (Fees) Regulations 1993. Electronic games have a specifed base fee of $1,400, plus an additional fee of $100 per hour or part of an hour for time in excess of 5 hours spent examining the electronic game. All fees are GST inclusive.
I guess huge is subjective. Of course, that fee above doesn't apply to some games, which don't need to be rated, namely:
- any video game carrying an Australian G, PG or M rating, and
- any video game carrying a British U, Uc, PG, 12 or 12A rating
In 2007/8 they considered 55 games, of which 9 were rated R18. Big money.
(Sources: Policy Advice 1 and 5 here (http://www.censorship.govt.nz/industry-games.html) and the annual report here (http://www.censorship.govt.nz/downloads.html#corporatedocuments))
Ultimately the ESRB(Entertainment Software Rating Board) control ALL game ratings.
Although not NZ, which doesn't accept their ratings. Perhaps control over the Office of Film and Literature Censorship is excercised through their control of the UK and Australian authorities?
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tiwa, im talking about NZ only, put your tinfoil hat away
i'm talking about shitty parents, not taking an interest in their kids, not paying attention to what they are trying to buy, and going fucking ballistic at my staff and I when i try to do something as simple as comply with the law
yes, i understand that it's "just a game", and it's just a tiny bit of weed, a fraction over the speed limit, you only put some of the knife into that guy...the law's the law and last time i check "but it's a stupid law" was not a defence
as it stands at the moment, they wouldn't dare go after the parents, who 9 times out of 10 either bullied or outright lied to supply the game to someone under the age....they'll go after the shop and the staff, cause it's easier.
and im sorry, my job, and jobs of my staff are worth more than you having a quiet weekend because little timmy is too busy killing hookers in his room to bother you
i would rather see a reasonably sensible ratings system (which IMO we already have) coupled with some decent enforcement against shops AND parents who supply these rated items to kids. i'm sick to death of people skiting that the warehouse sold it to them, or a video shop never asks when im following the law.
games are more realistic now than they ever have been, and will continue to be....no i dont think games turn people into killing machines.....but when you see the types of parents that typically try to buy this stuff for their kids...jesus, the question of why this country's kids seem to be batshit insane is answered:
shithouse parents, no limits, no supervision, and the constant reinforcement that violence, bullying and deceit will get you what you want
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tiwa, im talking about NZ only, put your tinfoil hat away
i'm talking about shitty parents, not taking an interest in their kids, not paying attention to what they are trying to buy, and going fucking ballistic at my staff and I when i try to do something as simple as comply with the law
yes, i understand that it's "just a game", and it's just a tiny bit of weed, a fraction over the speed limit, you only put some of the knife into that guy...the law's the law and last time i check "but it's a stupid law" was not a defence
as it stands at the moment, they wouldn't dare go after the parents, who 9 times out of 10 either bullied or outright lied to supply the game to someone under the age....they'll go after the shop and the staff, cause it's easier.
and im sorry, my job, and jobs of my staff are worth more than you having a quiet weekend because little timmy is too busy killing hookers in his room to bother you
i would rather see a reasonably sensible ratings system (which IMO we already have) coupled with some decent enforcement against shops AND parents who supply these rated items to kids. i'm sick to death of people skiting that the warehouse sold it to them, or a video shop never asks when im following the law.
games are more realistic now than they ever have been, and will continue to be....no i dont think games turn people into killing machines.....but when you see the types of parents that typically try to buy this stuff for their kids...jesus, the question of why this country's kids seem to be batshit insane is answered:
shithouse parents, no limits, no supervision, and the constant reinforcement that violence, bullying and deceit will get you what you want
agreed.
but you cant effectively enforce the law at store level. Sure you can stop someone you suspect but you have no real proof so no right to do so. Plus they will only goto the next shop and buy it and you start losing sales.
im not a 100% convinced that video games do that much damage. Look at our history humans have been doing fucked up shit too each other long before computers were around.
But lets say it does do damage to kids. Do we really need games where your killing hookers or doing drug deals? perhaps the answer is to restrict what developers put in these games? not that I think that will ever happen.
I think the best idea is for Parents take more responsibly on what their kids are playing. Maybe the Parents need to be well educated on the damage these game could be doing.
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I agree. But I don't know if the age limit should be 18 for video games like gta it should probably be more like 16. If they are old enough to have kids and drive a car they're old enough to play gta imo.
Yeah, it's not that unusual to run over a few Negroes or Hispanics every day.
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see, now this is where it gets tricky;
as it stands now, the law says that if i have reasonable suspicion that the game is going to be supplied to someone under the age, i'm not to sell it.
it's crazy vague
i don't need proof, just suspicion. and for me, that is having the child handle the game & bring it to the counter
now, in that situation, sure as night follows day, the parent will pipe up and go "oh in that case it's for me"... now i dont know about you, but i hate being lied to.\
so i explain that there is no parental exception for r rated games,
and things will go one of three ways;
1: parent goes ballistic, claiming that it's just a game, and i'm on some stort of power trip (one even took a swing at me)
2: parent claims that they've never been stopped before, or that so and so has always let timmy buy them in the past
3 (very rarely) they will listen to what i am saying and agree that it's fair enough
probably worth mentioning is that in most cases, the parent has been out in the foodcourt/some other shop and has no idea what their child is trying to buy
in all cases they will in all certianty go across the road and buy it at the warehouse.
now, as you can probably tell, i'm pretty sick of dealing with that crap, so most of the time when we have reasonably suspicion now we try to get a statement out of the parental
"did you realise that this game is restricted?"
"er..what? uhh yess"
"cool, so it's not going to be played by anyone under the age of XX?"
"yeah sure whatever"
all i'm looking for is a statement so i can cover my arse, and it's not cool, it's purely to stop the OFLC/target from catching us out in a sting while keeping the tills ringing.
once again reinforcing that lesson, lie and decieve kids, and you'll get what you want
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it's great you've got your policemans hat on GOG, but seriously the law wont work.
heard of steam?
Do you really beleive as gamers get into their 30's-50's and have kids under the age limits that they will create another steam account, or make two seperate game collections? maybe they'll lock their R18 games away in a time delayed gun cabinet ?
Do you think a law made for video classification which hasn't changed much in 50 years (apart from colour and improved clarity) is applicable to game content now or future ?
Does anyone play the boogeyman game GTA x beleiving it's real life? are there people out there who aren't mentally imbalanced to begin with that are going to be made antisocial? is that a crime? isn't this law basically 'thought crime' something bad might come of it but we don't have any evidence of it, we're just making restrictions because potentially we might .... do what exactly ? save a life ? I'd like to see that hypothetical scenario.
Maybe we should ban kids from swimming in oceans, every year we lose children to drowning in the sea.
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tiwa, im talking about NZ only, put your tinfoil hat away
Censorship falls under the jurisdiction of Internal Affairs
*Dramatic Music Plays*
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it's not about being a policeman, it's about doing my job according to the rules, i dont have the luxury of picking and chosing which ones i follow
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i simply meant it's great your taking the responsibility seriously, and following the rules is important.
As for the rules themselves, they be an ass, imo.
I also think questioning the rules is very important, and doubt very much you blindly follow whatever rules are set before you, without analysing the aims, and effectiveness of them.
IE taking kids parents away to jail makes kids safer ?
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it's not about being a policeman, it's about doing my job according to the rules, i dont have the luxury of picking and chosing which ones i follow
I was thinking of this thread today while out at the mall, popped into EB Games purely to check what kind of display they had in relation to ratings, the fines that come with it and the stores obligation and found nothing.
Does your store clearly display these? If i were a parent purchasing a game at this store today I probably would have laughed if the clerk mentioned anything about fines - having it clearly displayed in full view would make more of an impact and be a more active yet less strenuous effort of policing.
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Does your store clearly display these?
Pretty sure they don't have to. The labels on the boxes pretty much say it all.
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The boxes have ratings - it doesnt spell out how hefty the penalties are etc. The store I worked at had it clearly displayed at eye level on the counter. You couldnt miss the $ figures next to each breach of the Act.
Its clear there are no set guidelines when it comes to what a gamer looks like, the stereotype has gone out the window- unless youre going to be suspiscious of every customer and report every customer that purchases a R rated game, you need to have something that the company stands behind that your customers can clearly visually see for those moments when some dick starts shitting on you for following the rules.
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I was thinking of this thread today while out at the mall, popped into EB Games purely to check what kind of display they had in relation to ratings, the fines that come with it and the stores obligation and found nothing.
Does your store clearly display these? If i were a parent purchasing a game at this store today I probably would have laughed if the clerk mentioned anything about fines - having it clearly displayed in full view would make more of an impact and be a more active yet less strenuous effort of policing.
my store has an explanation of the ratings system on our stockroom door where anyone can see them, and then by each counter we have little hand out slips of paper i got from the OFLC so i can show people what they are risking, and asking me to risk
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Make more money from games by setting up arbitrary guidelines and force publishers to either sign up or die? Exactly right
It happened with movies and music and when games got lumped with it it happened again
Its like no one ever learns
Or you can use it as a club to beat down anything which doesnt adhere to 'standards', when those 'standards' have already been compromised.
The premiere of Schnews' great film about the campaign against EDO-MBM arms factory near Brighton, and how the British police tried to stop it from being screened. All of "On the Verge" will be broadcast on visionOntv.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSm-UzWzO2E
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My borther in law lets his kids play GTA.
Some parents just don't care.
I fully support game stores doing what's right and holding to the law.
However with things like steam and such, it's still really easy to get R rated video games. There is no easy soloution.
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Well it all boils down to this:
Why put ratings on games?
Protect childrenz? Bullshit
Educate populace? Bullshit
Make more money from games by setting up arbitrary guidelines and force publishers to either sign up or die? Exactly right
Could you explain your theory on this? Who is making money out of the ratings scheme, and how?
It seems there isnt alot of knowledge about the history of censorship. Here is the story of the infamous X rating
Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song was "Rated X by an all-white jury." The X rating in this case was a default judgment by the MPAA since Van Peebles couldn't afford to submit the film for a proper rating. (That the MPAA allowed the "X" to appear on films it never reviewed explains why it became essentially synonymous with pornography, since once the MPAA realized they could not claim it as a trademark they stopped using it as an official rating and now like to pretend that it never was one.)
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Well it all boils down to this:
Why put ratings on games?
http://playthisthing.com/suggestion-game-rating-board-tycoon
An interesting lesson from Korea:
Game Rating Board Tycoon
Suggested Game
Submitted by perplexing on Tue, 07/27/2010 - 07:45.
http://games.heartcomplex.net/grbt/index.html
Status: Won't Do
Game Rating Board Tycoon
Developer: Irene
(I'm not the developer of this game.)
The game is simple, but I have to explain background little bit for you.
It's satire game about game rating policy in Korea. Game Rating Board is a governmental organization for rate games. It's illegal to release a game without rating in Korea, and this applied to literally all (video)games including indie's and even from hobby game developers, whether your game is freeware or commercial.
And they impose commission fee for rating, about $25 for Flash and download game under 10MB is least, for downloadable games over 300MB is about $200. It's basic fee if your game is educational and not for online multiplayer. If you make RPG with multiplayer mode and is over 300MB, you should give them about $907. This is enforcement.
If your game is not rated, they'll shut down your website. They shut down or blocked several websites and games already. And Apple voluntarily shut down their games category for Korean AppStore.
Yes, Game Rating Board Tycoon is not rated by them, and not closed. And the game is little exaggerated for satire. GRB don't shut down all games around the world, and they can't. I'm Korean, and I can play all the games on this site. But there is the law that stipulates all games should be rated and games without rating is illegal. They applicate this law anytime "when they want".
p.s the 'Game' is unplayable rubbish. Oh the sweet irony
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HUGE amounts of money. So much money that there has never been a transparent track of the amount of money spent on just rating a game.
The fees for classifying publications are set down in the Films, Videos, and Publications Classifcation (Fees) Regulations 1993. Electronic games have a specifed base fee of $1,400, plus an additional fee of $100 per hour or part of an hour for time in excess of 5 hours spent examining the electronic game. All fees are GST inclusive.
I guess huge is subjective. Of course, that fee above doesn't apply to some games, which don't need to be rated, namely:
- any video game carrying an Australian G, PG or M rating, and
- any video game carrying a British U, Uc, PG, 12 or 12A rating
In 2007/8 they considered 55 games, of which 9 were rated R18. Big money.
(Sources: Policy Advice 1 and 5 here ([url]http://www.censorship.govt.nz/industry-games.html[/url]) and the annual report here ([url]http://www.censorship.govt.nz/downloads.html#corporatedocuments[/url]))
Ultimately the ESRB(Entertainment Software Rating Board) control ALL game ratings.
Although not NZ, which doesn't accept their ratings. Perhaps control over the Office of Film and Literature Censorship is exercised through their control of the UK and Australian authorities?
The point is New Zealand does have a rating standard, but it will generally default to some *cough* MPAA *cough* overseas standard if it can.
An update on the absurdness and hypocrisy of censorship ratings and costs:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charlielyne/make-the-censors-watch-paint-drying (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charlielyne/make-the-censors-watch-paint-drying)
The British Board of Film Classification (previously known as the British Board of Film Censors) was established in 1912 to ensure films remained free of 'indecorous dancing', 'references to controversial politics' and 'men and women in bed together', amongst other perceived indiscretions.
Today, it continues to censor and in some cases ban films, while UK law ensures that, in effect, a film cannot be released in British cinemas without a BBFC certificate.
Each certificate costs around £1000 for a feature film of average length. For many independent filmmakers, such a large upfront can prove prohibitively expensive.
For instance, if we raise £108.59, the film will be one minute long. If we raise £526.90, it'll be an hour long. And so on.
Update: Here's a brilliant website built by Jon Ginn that tracks how long the film is, in real time.
This movie is 14 hours long.
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This movie is 14 hours long.
No its not, he just has 14hrs of footage at this time.
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An update on the absurdness and hypocrisy of censorship ratings and costs:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charlielyne/make-the-censors-watch-paint-drying (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/charlielyne/make-the-censors-watch-paint-drying)
The only thing that is absurd is that guy for making such a stupid film.