Get Some
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on May 26, 2014, 08:49:00 am
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Like roads made from solar panels!
http://www.solarroadways.com (http://www.solarroadways.com)
This needs to be a thing everywhere.
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And it goes a little something like
- Oil Company Sees This
- Website and people vanish
What solar roads?!
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Getsome, now owned by PETRONAS.
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Without reading through that horrifically designed website, I'm assuming they're going to have roadside cabinets to act as middle men between the road and power reservoirs because fuck, what a job it would be to lay all that cable.
I mean, I'm pretty good at laying cable, at the top of my game actually but there's only so much one man can do.
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Yea, the website is pretty terrible.
"LETS FILL UP DA SITE WITH YOUBUBE AND PICTURES OF DOGS!!"
So it's just like the rest of the internet, only with dogs instead of cats.
But cool idea, I'd build my driveway out of these.
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Spacemonkey, I'm surprised.
So this solar road ways thing, I think it's a good idea, but it's the last of the good ideas. It's like some brainstorm group thought up 5 ideas and this was 5th.
Basically solar panels are really fragile, and their efficiency is crap. So putting solar panels in glass (reduced efficiency) with a lower panel density is a silly idea. Putting them on a dirty road, covered in grit, dirt, mud, oil, etc is going to further reduce their efficiency, even more of a silly idea. The panels will have an interface, which will have to be really strong and resilient to keep the crap (see above) and water out. In colder areas the water between the parts will freeze and expand. The longer a road is, the less efficient the power from far out will be, high population densities where the power is required have a low ratio of roads to people. Also the numbers in their wee video don't add up, $16 now, $16 in 3 years and $ in 6 years != $48 today. And putting delicate solar panels, in a really harmful environment, seems a bit daft.
What if, we could put these delicate solar panels, where the people are, somewhere up high, out of harms way, with a higher density, and no protective glass? Like...what if we put them on the roof?....like we already do?
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Just one question.
How much direct sun does a street in, say... Manhattan, get?
It's a cool idea and all, but I really can't see a panel surviving a boulder falling on it, then being able to warn drivers. Or detect a moose, as opposed to a motorcycle or something.
Also, being glass topped... which bitumen is not, how does this affect sunstrike?
Sunglare: Now from both up AND down!
Not saying it shouldn't be a thing...
but perhaps beginning with some kind of thermal induction device to lay under current black surfaces might be an idea also?
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I would like to add to your input pyro..
sunstrike on a wet surface. even more glare than sunstrike!
I seen this video lastnight and I had to laugh, sure its futuristic and all, but it will need a nuclear power source to run it at night, theres no way it will sustain itself...
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I can assume each block has a cell in it capable of running a few LED's overnight.
It's more the northern winter months when a night lasts 18 hours that's probably more the issue, especially when factoring in the heating too.
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The idea is sound, if you apply it to the correct environment. ie in high sunlight hour areas. Needing an electrician to do roadworks could be bothersome.
Every road, everywhere, Fuck no.
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So this solar road ways thing, I think it's a good idea, but it's the last of the good ideas. It's like some brainstorm group thought up 5 ideas and this was 5th.
Everybody has ideas, these guys have actually built prototypes.
Basically solar panels are really fragile,
These ones are as strong as steel.
and their efficiency is crap.
Compared to what?
In colder areas the water between the parts will freeze and expand.
They have heaters, which can prevent freezing.
The longer a road is, the less efficient the power from far out will be, high population densities where the power is required have a low ratio of roads to people.
How is this any different to having power stations very far away from cities? There is still a long distance.
Like...what if we put them on the roof?....like we already do?
Of course, we should put them on the roof. And unfortunately, putting solar panels on the roof hasn't yet taken off yet in NZ.
Just one question.
How much direct sun does a street in, say... Manhattan, get?
It's a cool idea and all, but I really can't see a panel surviving a boulder falling on it, then being able to warn drivers. Or detect a moose, as opposed to a motorcycle or something.
Also, being glass topped... which bitumen is not, how does this affect sunstrike?
Sunglare: Now from both up AND down!
I would think streets in Manhattan would be the worst place.
I guess they more thinking along the lines of California, or on interstates, which would get a lot more sun.
Where do these boulders come from?
Yes, definitely sun strike would be an issue, I wonder why they haven't said anything about this in their FAQ.
I can assume each block has a cell in it capable of running a few LED's overnight.
It's more the northern winter months when a night lasts 18 hours that's probably more the issue, especially when factoring in the heating too.
Of course solar cells produce less power in winter. However wind and hydro usually produce more power in winter. A good power solution needs to make good use of multiple power sources.
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Two of the best aspects in my opinion, are;
Configurable road markings. Easily change with lanes depending on traffic, or change it to a bus lane, display the speed limit (and alert drivers if they are exceeding it). etc.
Driverless cars, the road is basically a network of computers, with the location of all other cars, pedestrians, moose etc. This can all be communicated to the cars, and the cars can track the centreline of the road and drive themselves.
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Two of the best aspects in my opinion, are;
Configurable road markings. Easily change with lanes depending on traffic, or change it to a bus lane, display the speed limit (and alert drivers if they are exceeding it). etc.
Driverless cars, the road is basically a network of computers, with the location of all other cars, pedestrians, moose etc. This can all be communicated to the cars, and the cars can track the centreline of the road and drive themselves.
The options are fairly bountiful once they're installed. But per some of the other posts, the risk and costs will be significant. It'll take a ballsy government/enterprise to roll it out, let alone maintain and make it work...
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So this solar road ways thing, I think it's a good idea, but it's the last of the good ideas. It's like some brainstorm group thought up 5 ideas and this was 5th.
Everybody has ideas, these guys have actually built prototypes.
Basically solar panels are really fragile,
These ones are as strong as steel.
and their efficiency is crap.
Compared to what?
In colder areas the water between the parts will freeze and expand.
They have heaters, which can prevent freezing.
The longer a road is, the less efficient the power from far out will be, high population densities where the power is required have a low ratio of roads to people.
How is this any different to having power stations very far away from cities? There is still a long distance.
Like...what if we put them on the roof?....like we already do?
Of course, we should put them on the roof. And unfortunately, putting solar panels on the roof hasn't yet taken off yet in NZ.
'As strong as steel' is marketing bullshit.
The efficiency of a solar panel is the ratio of the energy output compared to the amount of energy that hits the panel in the form of light. the best is 44%. But the energy drop of solar panels falls off as an inverse polynomial. As parts of the cell become covered (by say oil, dirt, rubber) that area doesn't just stop producing power, it actually starts consuming power.
So their efficiency is crap relative to the amount of light incident on the surface, it's made even worse by putting them in glass and in a dirty environment.
The heaters consume more power than the panel produces, the video shows them placing the heating coil OVER the panel, even if they mount it inside, the power required to melt water is (as you know) very high, much higher than the power the solar panels can harvest.
I'm not concerned with power plants, that's not what I'm arguing for. Though placing a dam in the middle of the suburbs probably won't work.
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Where do these boulders come from?
So you didn't watch the hyperbole filled video?
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But won't they suck all the energy out of the sun so it implodes and destroys everything?
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But won't they suck all the energy out of the sun so it implodes and destroys everything?
So, if you took all the energy out of the sun, it would have to go somewhere. Where on earth (literally) might we store the energy of the sun?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere)
This is a really cool scifi concept.
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But won't they suck all the energy out of the sun so it implodes and destroys everything?
So, if you took all the energy out of the sun, it would have to go somewhere. Where on earth (literally) might we store the energy of the sun?
[url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere[/url] ([url]http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere[/url])
This is a really cool scifi concept.
Those Dyson vacuum cleaners really do suck up everything, I hope they don't suck up the sun completely though. Shit would be colder than Christchurch on a mid Autumn day.
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Throw didldos at the sun.
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Cock Combuster.
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Throw didldos at the sun.
Solar powered dildo.
Doesn't work in the dark.
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Throw didldos at the sun.
Solar powered dildo.
Doesn't work in the dark.
Solar powered buttplug, perfect for those who think the sun shines outta their ass.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H901KdXgHs4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H901KdXgHs4)
TL;DW
1) Just the cost of the glass paving itself would make this an extremely expensive endeavor.
2) Glass tends to very slippy when dirty or wet which roads often are, no tests have been shown for these conditions or an emergency stop in dry weather.
3) Dirt would act like sandpaper on the glass making it smoother and more opaque, simultaneously reducing its suitability as a road surface and lowering energy output (less energy reaches the cell).
4) Even super bright LEDs are difficult to see at a shallow angle during strong sunlight, this means that most roads would still have to have painted on markings anyway. It is instead much more efficient just to equip cars with headlights and place cat's eyes in the roads, some urban roads may need a dynamic road system but these are by far the exception.
5) Energy transport losses will mean that for any road surface that isn't near a point of use (e.g. a house), this will technology will be essentially useless.
6) These solar cells are not going to generate enough power to melt snow, it is much more energy efficient just to push snow off the road and grit the road.
7) The claim of the use of recycled glass is ridiculous.
8 ) Roads are not made out of separate tiles as a)water will filter through the cracks and erode the material beneath the road and b) vehicles rolling over the tiles will cause differential loading leading the tiles to wiggle loose.
9) It would be much easier and cheaper just to install solar panels above parking space and/or by the side of the road rather than underneath it.
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Solar freak'n canopies!
Drive without fear of sunstrike!
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I like how Bounty is coming up with all these great ideas on how to solve the world energy problems, instead of criticizing other peoples ideas.
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Solar freak'n canopies!
Drive without fear of sunstrike!
Self driving cars.
Drive while asleep!
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Bounty has fucked solar roadways in its ass.
I'm a little rigid.
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I like how Bounty is coming up with all these great ideas on how to solve the world energy problems, instead of criticizing other peoples ideas.
Regardless of what he was doing, no point throwing money at something which has some fundamental flaws. A slick video and a good idea in concept don't mean much.
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w)
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I like how Bounty is coming up with all these great ideas on how to solve the world energy problems, instead of criticizing other peoples ideas.
Solar roadways doesn't solve the worlds energy problems either?
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See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w)
Imagine dropping that and it coming apart..
"Has anyone seen my wifi? or my CPU? it's on the floor here somewhere"
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See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFTwthNrL_w)
Their angle or "if you break da stuff den u haff 2 throw away, dis is wastey and bad for da nveeromints" rips my nutsack. If anything, if these modular phones make it to the market, they're not going to ease the manufacturing process they're going to create yet another burden because people are still buying and discarding. There's more plastic being used, more tech (connection points for each block) more batteries, more screens, more everything because not only are they going to be producing the phones, they're going to be producing extra after market 'bloks' in excess, in different sizes and capacities that let the user 'upgrade'.
Fucking tools.
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Since my last post: all of the thruths, none of the falses.
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Solar Roadways?
What the hell is this bullshit?
These people need to go back to school. Here is something that actually works:
South Korea's wireless electric roads - Truthloader Investigates (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDhdiKBLavM#ws)
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Solar Roadways?
What the hell is this bullshit?
These people need to go back to school. Here is something that actually works:
No.
Lol.
Absolutely not. This is maybe as bad as solar roadways.
What happens when one vehicle breaks down?
Any ideas how efficient inductive charging is? Any ideas how efficient inductive charging through tar seal is?
It's a neat gimmick for mobile phones and maybe laptops, but shouldn't be applied to anything much larger.
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Solar Roadways?
What the hell is this bullshit?
These people need to go back to school. Here is something that actually works:
No.
Lol.
Absolutely not. This is maybe as bad as solar roadways.
What happens when one vehicle breaks down?
Any ideas how efficient inductive charging is? Any ideas how efficient inductive charging through tar seal is?
It's a neat gimmick for mobile phones and maybe laptops, but shouldn't be applied to anything much larger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen)
Punctuality
The Shinkansen is very reliable thanks to several factors, including its near-total separation from slower traffic. In 2012, JR Central reported that the Shinkansen's average delay from schedule per train was 36 seconds. This includes delays due to uncontrollable causes, such as natural disasters. The record, in 1997, was 18 seconds.
Your move Bounty Hunter. I suggest you move your pawns out first to make room for your bigger pieces.
The argument is quite simple: Shinkansen never fails. Could it fail? Yes, but without practical testing then criticising it makes you look like a negative nancy
Also I will counter all your arguments with: South Korea
Less Pylons Required
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[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen[/url])
Punctuality
The Shinkansen is very reliable thanks to several factors, including its near-total separation from slower traffic. In 2012, JR Central reported that the Shinkansen's average delay from schedule per train was 36 seconds. This includes delays due to uncontrollable causes, such as natural disasters. The record, in 1997, was 18 seconds.
Your move Bounty Hunter. I suggest you move your pawns out first to make room for your bigger pieces.
The argument is quite simple: Shinkansen never fails. Could it fail? Yes, but without practical testing then criticising it makes you look like a negative nancy
Also I will counter all your arguments with: South Korea
Less Pylons Required
Train != Bus.
Non sequitur.
Your move. I'm going out for dinner, because I'm polite my response may be delayed. Have an excellent evening.
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No.
Lol.
Absolutely not. This is maybe as bad as solar roadways.
What happens when one vehicle breaks down?
Any ideas how efficient inductive charging is? Any ideas how efficient inductive charging through tar seal is?
It's a neat gimmick for mobile phones and maybe laptops, but shouldn't be applied to anything much larger.
But it is applied to a bus, and it works, I just saw a video of it.
If a bus breaks down, then you fix it!
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[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen[/url])
Punctuality
The Shinkansen is very reliable thanks to several factors, including its near-total separation from slower traffic. In 2012, JR Central reported that the Shinkansen's average delay from schedule per train was 36 seconds. This includes delays due to uncontrollable causes, such as natural disasters. The record, in 1997, was 18 seconds.
Your move Bounty Hunter. I suggest you move your pawns out first to make room for your bigger pieces.
The argument is quite simple: Shinkansen never fails. Could it fail? Yes, but without practical testing then criticising it makes you look like a negative nancy
Also I will counter all your arguments with: South Korea
Less Pylons Required
Non sequitur.
Your move. I'm going out for dinner, because I'm polite my response may be delayed. Have an excellent evening.
That is a better move. A good solid opening. I hope you are having a steak for dinner too. I could murder a steak right now
First: Pictures
(http://www.getsome.co.nz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=87186.0;attach=8451)
Next Criticisms:
Skeptics both at home and abroad had warned that the costs involved in installing the equipment show that it could be less practical than other schemes, such as those in which vehicles recharge at designated locations or using cables. The commercialization process has cost up to KRW 26.6 billion between December 2011 and June 2013. But experts say that they see a lot of potential for the technology for public transport applications, adding that the remaining question is how to cut down the cost.
Next some Information
A device attached to the bottom of the bus draws up power from the road using a technology called “shaped magnetic field in resonance.” Electric cables embedded under the road create electromagnetic fields, which are then picked up by a coil inside the device and converted into electricity. The energy transfer rate from road wires to the car has reached 75 percent.
The 12 km route on the public road is the first of its kind in the world according to project developers, who added that 10 more public buses are scheduled to be added by 2015.
The battery in the electric vehicle is less than one-third the size of those in other electric vehicles, which helps reduce not only the overall weight of the vehicle but also the amount of carbon dioxide emitted during power generation, thus improving the overall efficiency of the vehicle.
This article I am quoting mentions 75% efficiency but it comes from 2013 and the most recent video has 77% efficiency mentioned and shown on the monitor.
And finally the most recent video from January. There are others but they're blocked in our country for some reason. Not that it would matter because they appear to be in Korean
Bus, Korea South vehicles/ charging Gumi, system wireless electric OLEV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj4aG9ejaqc#ws)
My guess for why this is in South Korea is probably due to an overhead wire ban and environmental reasons
And finally the BBC Documentary:
http://www.bbc.com/specialfeatures/horizonsbusiness/seriesfour/episode-8-fuel-for-thought/?vid=p021ljhq (http://www.bbc.com/specialfeatures/horizonsbusiness/seriesfour/episode-8-fuel-for-thought/?vid=p021ljhq)
Cost: $2,000,000
This will repay itself in 5 - 6 years
Normal Cost: $4000 a month in Diesel
Electric Bus: $1000 a month in Electricity
0 Emmissions
In all seriousness: This would be totally worth it if we could pull out our Back to the Future hoverboards and use them to get around
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It seems there have been some improvements in efficiency.
I suppose their proposed system is not much different to the idea of a tram (not train), except the wires run under the road, and there is no physical connection to the tram.
I concede the system is certainly worth consideration for public transport.
Well played Tiwa. I had pasta, it was nice.
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It seems there have been some improvements in efficiency.
I suppose their proposed system is not much different to the idea of a tram (not train), except the wires run under the road, and there is no physical connection to the tram.
I concede the system is certainly worth consideration for public transport.
Well played Tiwa. I had pasta, it was nice.
I was less curious about efficiency and more curious about why this system was better than just recharging the buses now and then.
It turns out that the downtime from recharging normal electric buses is quite high due to the buses being completely out of commission while charging. That includes the idea of having charging stations at bus stops.
This system lets the bus travel up to 2km on a full battery. The segmentation of the system means that power is only provided when the bus passes over a section
By charging the buses while in motion, it cuts downtime to a negligible amount. Even better, it decreases the need for storage on the bus which cuts down the size of the engine and any battery requirements.
It is such a weird equation: Bigger Battery = Less Efficiency. Bigger Engine = Less Efficiency. More Recharge Stops = Less Efficiency
In comparison to Solar Roads: It seems that one Korean Businessman can do more than USD$2,000,000 and a bunch of idiot hippies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Roadways) could ever do
I would have liked to have seen this in Dunedin instead of the Forsyth Barr Stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium) which, by my calculations, will take 132 years to pay for
p.s Shinkansen is an almost 100% reliable electric train system
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Now the French are doing it.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/france-paving-more-600-miles-road-solar-panels-180958035/?no-ist (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/france-paving-more-600-miles-road-solar-panels-180958035/?no-ist)
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Now the French are doing it.
[url]http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/france-paving-more-600-miles-road-solar-panels-180958035/?no-ist[/url] ([url]http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/france-paving-more-600-miles-road-solar-panels-180958035/?no-ist[/url])
At least they look pretty. That blue is amaze.