Programming for programmings sake is boring, have you tried modding, then learning as you go? It's better to have a project that needs you to learn something to make it happen.
In before thread falls apart
Plumber's apprentice.
1) I'd like to minimize the time I'm studying
2) My math is extremely poor
Lastly, any advice that comes to mind?
Not trolling.
More people need to train for occupations that we actually need.
Yeah.
Don't study.
Where abouts in NZ are you?
I did this
[url]http://www.manukau.ac.nz/programme-data/computing-and-it/bachelor-of-information-systems[/url]
Not trolling.
More people need to train for occupations that we actually need.
Like Computer Programming.
Our company is always needing to hire new developers.
I doesn't need any more plumbers.
Just get in contact with universities you think you'd like to study at. Ask them what they offer and how they offer it.
I've just done a month or 2 of research into Masters papers offered across universities in NZ.
Have decided to take my Masters with RMIT (Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology) via distance learning.
Do your homework.
I have some questions you should ask yourself (and I mean this without trolling)
You say your maths is poor - what about your analytical and logical skills - generally those with poor maths also aren't too sharp when it comes to logic and analysing things.
These are also skills that are required as a programmer and generally you are able to think logically and analytically or you can't - if you can't, being a programmer isn't going to be the job for you.
Are you wanting to be a programmer because writting code interests you/you like making programs better or because there are lots of jobs in that field and you think it will be a cool job?
be wary about jumping on the Band Wagon when it comes to careers - do what you are good at, not necersarrily what has a lot of job vacancies.
[url]http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/an-introduction-to-c.html[/url]
[url]http://www.dummies.com/how-to/computers-software/programming/chash.html[/url]
Programming is a bitch
"oh you missed a semi-colon on line 45876289 and on line 8932781994... but me, your friendly compiler, isn't going to tell you that, I'm just going to refuse to work without reason"
I wouldn't advise postgrad study at Massey.
Steve Maharey is a deceitful prick. He's an ex politician so no suprises there.
You're all talk and no action.
A fast flowing river of contradiction.
The real issue here is why are people so emotionally attached to their advice and opinions? Why do they care so much about it that they get angry when people do something else? It's really sad and pathetic.
Yeah, maths off the internet wouldn't be a great idea.
there's nothing to get you motivated to learn all about eigenvalues like an exam!
Seems like you just got some use out of my 'troll' comments, so ionno.
Also I did a software engineering degree at Massey, so you could actually pick up some useful information if you open your eyes and take your fingers out of your ears, despite my not presenting it in your preferred, ego-massaging manner.
Gah, I'll talk to them about a remedial math course prior to the actual degree then. Thanks.
I could study rocket science (no I couldn't) then act like a retard on the internet, wouldn't make me useful in any particular thread. Cut the shit.
Aw, you're just so precious ^_^
Like Computer Programming.
Our company is always needing to hire new developers.
It doesn't need any more plumbers.
I studied Software Eng at Victoria, and for the most part it got me nowhere (I still haven't graduated and I'm doing quite well for myself) (sorry private_hell :P)
I would recommend learning a popular language/framework, which is probably one of Java or .NET in NZ, sign up to a software development forum and learn best practices from the community.
Then should you change your opinions of programming you won't have sunk cash into nothing.
Also I'm not quite sure where people get the undertone of Programming=Maths, the only "mathy" part is algorithms, and there are plenty of examples. If you know how to add, multiply, divide and subtract you will be able to do most things you need to.
I find that 50% of my time as a developer is spent creating, designing and selling idea's, 30% documenting and 20% actually writing code. In saying that I'm probably more of an analyst than a programmer as such.
Whatever you study, just be sure it's what you want. Don't rush anything, take time to make the decision because it may just be a passing phase.
Be incredibly thorough before you put the cash down for tuition fees or lock in more student debt.
Really, I mean REALLY make sure it's what you want. Because at the end of the day, reading a few books may just get you to the same place. I've known a lot of people who don't have the greatest qualifications when it comes to developing but have been able to SHOW people what they can do and interviews for developer positions tend to give you a good chance to do this.
I agree with xeno. I did a bachelors in com soc and a diploma in advanced programming.
But have learnt more out of purchasing the text book and applying it to my job irl than I ever did with theory at uni.
I also find that 20% percent of my time is actual code and of that 5% is new code the rest is rehashing something for somebody else.
But them I am an analyst
Correction.
We need more monkey programmers and swindle plumbers.
What we don't need is more swindle programmers and monkey plumbers.
The real question then is what do I try and make in C# that will benefit me career-wise? I know only for my personal enjoyment I'd like to make games but I'm not sure I can learn that online because I tried in the past and just kept falling over myself and it was never C# I was learning it was more XNA or unity. None of the tutorials seem to teach me what I need as opposed to just saying how they do something.
So what tutorials would you recommend to get started?
SQL is important to learn, however you can only really learn the basics in a tutorial.
C# is great for windows apps.
What is important is linking the two together. Pretty much every bussiness application involves a database back end, and some kind of UI (windows app, web page etc) to view and edit the data.
You could start by developing a simple windows forms app which lists records stored fin a table in the database.
Next step would be inserting and updating records etc.
You can get SQL Express here
[url]http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=29062[/url]
Diploma would probably be a good place to start. It'll teach you the basics.
Once you have the underlying knowledge, API's become your friend and learning just becomes a thing you do without realising it.
I mentioned .NET, and I'm going to get shot by Tiwa for doing so. BUT, it's a very corporate framework, and it's easy to learn with plenty of examples. C# is my preference, but I learnt VB.NET in 2 days (after knowing C#.NET for ~ year) There is a huge amount of jobs for .NET developers and our universities seem to be churning out Java developers, which leaves an area that is in demand at the moment. If you choose this route, do it quickly because I foresee in a year or two it will be much harder to get a .NET job
Once you learn one language, you can read and interpret almost every other language there is.
EDIT: I concur with the Monkey
SQL is pain in the Cunt when it starts misbehaving, especially when you have SQL servers that decide that they want to eat all the RAM on a server, despite being told not to. Although SQL isn't as big a pain as poxy 3rd part applications that use their own 'proprietry' Database structure that is in fact 10 years old and so shit that they don't even have a 64 bit ODBC driver for it
I'll definitely be going with C# in that case.Talk to Bell. I'm inclined to say no, unless you grew up programming you will never be good enough to develop for a games studio. They honestly have some of THE best developers out there. Learn the basics, that's what I did and found my niche in business process improvement, which is something I'd never considered.
Is it even worth my learning to make video games?
As far as courses go, is computer power any good? barely heard of them so maybe not... the course seems to start out quite basic, too
[url]http://www.computerpower.ac.nz/images/cp/cpp_dsd_dip_software_development.pdf[/url]
I've been looking through other courses and there's this as well [url]http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/courses/Pages/BachelorofInformationandTechnology.aspx?return=/AreasOfInterest/Information-Technology[/url]
3 years, but course fees aren't enormous.
I'm still concerned about learning this on my own, there really aren't many adequate resources, so unless anyone has some links (which would be great) then I'm not too sure about it.
Word of warning.
Whiteria just purchased computer power who have so far been into liquidation three times previously.
Each time have left students out of pocket I signed up to take some night classes then they went belly up and now I am paying for a student loan for a course I didn't attend because they went bankrupt and I can't claim it back either because of bullshit with creditors for them.
But then again whiteria has a good record so maybe they will finaly turn around computer power and make it profitable.
So - the question I'd pose for all above quotes is would I be better off just doing a diploma? MDS actually offer a bachelor of software engineering, which is game programming and it's quite tempting - what isn't tempting is the near 10 grand per year for 3 years. It would be a lot of fun but I'm not willing to pay that much. I'll look into other shorter courses out there.
a friend of mine is just finishing computer eng and is going into software engineering (aka programming) he said to me the only difference he's noticed between a computer eng student and a computer science student is that the computer eng students gets about 10k more a year for a graduate position, and employers are willing to pay that cause you are a trained engineer.
I've been looking through other courses and there's this as well [url]http://www.whitireia.ac.nz/courses/Pages/BachelorofInformationandTechnology.aspx?return=/AreasOfInterest/Information-Technology[/url]
3 years, but course fees aren't enormous.
Hmm I'm looking at university of auckland's website but can't find the bachelor degree of computer engineering, I'm assuming they call it something different; any idea what?
nah I don't know what AUT call it, or if they _actaully_ offer it, the computer engineering degree at UC is still quite new, but is picking up pace, every year it's more and more popular.
Auckland might still call it electronic engineering (IIRC they dont offer electrical engineering (which is considered power engineering) like canterbury does)
You may have to talk to them.
I would susgest go for a one year diploma first. Something focussed in maybe .NET, but with some database stuff as well.
I know in my class, a guy who did the diploma first, then went on to do a degree. Good idea I think as after the diploma you can decide if you want to start working, or keep on studying.
I really enjoyed my degree. It had programming, game development, even a bit on accounting and a paper on law.
Just keep in mind, there will be papers you really enjoy, and other papers which you will hate. Just take the good with the bad and stick too it.
A boy is smoking a pack of cigarettes.
A girl gets irritated with the smoke and says to him: "Can't you see the warning written on the cigarettes packet, smoking is bad for your health!"
The boy replies back: "I am a programmer. We don't worry about warnings, we only worry about errors."
Do like.... Roflol
This is the only one that looks like it that I can find.
[url]http://www.engineering.auckland.ac.nz/uoa/home/for/futureundergraduates/fu-study-options/bachelorofengineeringbehons[/url]
looks like i might have to go to UC for that bounty, the more i look into it the more they seem different; is it anything similar or the same as to what you're doing?
I'd also worry about the entry credits, I never did level 3 NCEA and my science education was a massive flop because I went to westlake and our teacher was a complete retard with a class average of 14% (i think it was 50% to pass) because he talks REALLY slow and didn't manage to get through a single lesson... he was teaching there because his brother was head of department, reminds me of professor snape that guy..
need NCEA 3 math with calculus, physics, chemistry. I could of been good at them if I had decent teachers but they were fucking pathetic. Makes me annoyed to this day that they ruined my education in areas that could of helped :P
agree
Also, stop blaming your teachers. Pull finger, do what's required to move on. They are only responsible for so much, you're the one that has to do the hard work.
Computer Systems, Electronic/Electrical and Software, all describe what you've asked, make a time with one of their staff to sit down for a yarn.
wait till you're 20, then you get UE for free.
if that's still a year or so away, work, have fun, earn some money and buy things/save for things that will make studying more comfortable
I also agree with Rii, you will get some seriously terrible lecturers, guess what? no one gives a shit, you still have to pass.
Why do you want to study the course?
WHERERERE ARE DA TROLOLOLOLS AT?
Hey OB, do you have a student loan from your 3D course?
Because it's something that's always interested me, and because I know if I get through it I'll come out with a decent job in an area that I'd enjoy, presumably.
Not good enough.
A programme coordinator is not going to accept that as a valid reason for wanting admission.
Sure, whatever.
You're going into this pissing into the wind. Your lack of quals and school work don't paint a pretty picture so a programme coordinator isn't going to be able to distinguish that you're passionate about the subject and know what you want by just looking at your academic record. You're going to basically have to interview for your acceptance. Simply saying "because I like it" isn't going to wash. you have to convince them that you're up to it and will be seeing it through.
Be thankful you don't have to write a 2000 word essay, spend 2hrs filling out applications and provide character/work references as well as applying for scholarships, it's what I've been doing and am currently doing and have had Skype meetings, countless emails and phone conversations with programme coordinators across various unis, and they always asked the same thing - "why do you want to study this"?.
Where do you get the idea of this programme coordinator jealously guarding the entrance to the first-year of undergraduate degrees?
Well I just got back and things are looking up. In a way.
I went to the faculty of engineering and had a talk with someone there. The first thing she said was 'what do you want to do' as I believe someone already mentioned she would. The next thing she said was to do a bachelor of science with a computer science major, like her first reaction is to get rid of anyone trying to get in - she later mentioned a lot of people want in there - so I told her the points bounty had mentioned about the extra year being worth it and she conceded.
TLDR is that I have to go to summer school, do MATHS 102 and PHYSICS 103 (or may have to do 102 instead she said) which apparently will be very hard having 4 hours of lecture a day but is doable. I convinced her I work hard and can do it. Then following that I have to be enrolled in a bachelor of science and not engineering to do math 108 and physics 120 as well as two other papers. Apparently SCIGEN 101G is strongly recommended (printed just like that). The fourth paper she recommended for me is COMPSCI 101 which is 'principles of programming'.
Their requirements are quite strict all along the way, so of course I have to work hard but I see no reason I can't do it - if, as said, I work hard.
Following that, I can then transfer from a bachelor of science into engineering, assuming they allow it.
The good thing here is that failing the transfer into engineering I can continue on with doing comp sci.
Thoughts?
just remember if you want to transfer from the BSc into the BEng, Auckland will require a B+ or A (i forget which one auckland is) average across your papers in first year - passing the papers isnt good enough
Are you getting AUT confused with University of Auckland?
I'm wondering if the math and physics courses are even too advanced for me, I really got no education in the area. I can add multiply subtract and divide, little more.
Only thing is there's really nothing more basic than that, asides from math 101, and if I do that then it'll mess up the whole plan.
I wouldn't mind ending up in computer science, the extra year coming off would be a relief, but I'll still push for it as it sets me up better for the future.
Gah, decisions. I don't even know what 2sin(x) is :P
I think it was a B average with B+ in math and physics.
Diploma would probably be a good place to start. It'll teach you the basics.One of the reasons why I havent waded into this thread with links to useful information and encouragement is the use of C#, which is a language I hate because:
Once you have the underlying knowledge, API's become your friend and learning just becomes a thing you do without realising it.
I mentioned .NET, and I'm going to get shot by Tiwa for doing so. BUT, it's a very corporate framework, and it's easy to learn with plenty of examples. C# is my preference, but I learnt VB.NET in 2 days (after knowing C#.NET for ~ year) There is a huge amount of jobs for .NET developers and our universities seem to be churning out Java developers, which leaves an area that is in demand at the moment. If you choose this route, do it quickly because I foresee in a year or two it will be much harder to get a .NET job
Once you learn one language, you can read and interpret almost every other language there is.
EDIT: I concur with the Monkey
Programming is still powered by Black Magic and Sorcery....
And little gremlins sneek in at night and Remove lines of Code that you put there yesterday.....This, many times over.
Or your program starts doing things that it's not coded to do, then develops a mind of its own and starts shutting down other programs ...
1. QA logs issue
2. I do nothing, mark issue as fixed and send back to QA.
3. QA passes it
Win!
- avoid mathematical papers that you will struggle with as they don't offer much usable knowledge imo
How many people commenting here are actual developers in paid employment?
Basically if you don't know the maths, your job isn't important enough to need it, and you are paid accordingly.
....Or you're too important to need to know it, and you are paid accordingly. haha.
Well I guess by the time you finish engineering you would have done a reasonable amount of practical work.
pyro, what did you study at canty?
How are you getting on with this Oddball?
A new thread asking for advice becoming a mechanic is due in about 2 days.
Guys - I wrote this program, I was wondering if you could give me some pointers:
C:\
C:\Troll
C:\Troll\Post
Post\Troll\Post
0x3A28213A
0x6339392C
0x7363682E
Guys - I wrote this program, I was wondering if you could give me some pointers:
C:\
C:\Troll
C:\Troll\Post
Post\Troll\Post
Foreach ( Post post in GetSome.Forums )
{
if ( Post.Stupid == true )
{
this.Angry = true;
Post.Troll( );
}
}
Quote from: Bounty Hunter;15069000x3A28213AI hate you.
0x6339392C
0x7363682E
[url]http://xkcd.com/138/[/url]
C# is awesome, as usual I have no idea what Tiwaking is ranting about.If you want to work in the games industry, use C
If you want to be a games programmer you need C++ and you need a shit ton of passion.
Minecraft is a java app?Wow. Where have you been living for the past two years?
Did I mention I hate Minecraft?I also dislike Minecraft and do not play it
I am a beautiful man.
No, seriously, I know C# and maybe that helps due to similarity. But Java feels like I'm not programming, it feels like I'm having an English discussion with the computer about some form of logic (but since it's Java, less logic than usual). I could say the same about C#, however the primary difference is that C# doesn't induce the sensation of dying brain cells. If you picture this in your head, make sure to add agonized screams as the brain cells die off one-by-one.
Read it and weep ScrubsNo, seriously, I know C# and maybe that helps due to similarity. But Java feels like I'm not programming, it feels like I'm having an English discussion with the computer about some form of logic (but since it's Java, less logic than usual). I could say the same about C#, however the primary difference is that C# doesn't induce the sensation of dying brain cells. If you picture this in your head, make sure to add agonized screams as the brain cells die off one-by-one.
I approve of this description of Java
In computer science, reflection is the ability of a computer program to examine (see type introspection) and modify the structure and behavior (specifically the values, meta-data, properties and functions) of the program at runtime.
When you wrote your code you had bugs in it which you had to fix. Some of the bugs were probably easy to identify; others probably took more time.
1. Characterise the kinds of bugs you had to deal with:
What University thinks reflection is:Quote from: lame reflection assignment exampleWhen you wrote your code you had bugs in it which you had to fix. Some of the bugs were probably easy to identify; others probably took more time.
1. Characterise the kinds of bugs you had to deal with:
Actually had to make shit up because I didn't have any? Then every reflection expands on this and I had to improvise..
What Reflection actually is:
What University is:([url]http://static4.businessinsider.com/image/51daf28cecad04ec35000028/hackers-have-figured-out-how-to-take-over-your-toilet.jpg[/url])
Java feels like I'm not programming, it feels like I'm having an English discussion with the computer about some form of logic (but since it's Java, less logic than usual)
/**Tue Mar 18 01:21:50 NZDT 2014iterate the data members*/
public String getRetrieveCode(String table)throws Exception{
String varName,code="table="+table;
Field[]fields=getClass().getDeclaredFields();
StringBuilder sb=new StringBuilder(fields.length*20);
Field field;
for(int i=0;i<fields.length;i++){
field=fields[i];
if (!java.lang.reflect.Modifier.isStatic(field.getModifiers())) {
sb.append(String.format("&%s=%s",field.getName(),field.get(this).toString()));
}
}//4i
code+=sb.toString();
return code;
}//me
It turns any Object into POST code for a PHP SQL INSERT or UPDATENo, seriously, I know C# and maybe that helps due to similarity. But Java feels like I'm not programming, it feels like I'm having an English discussion with the computer about some form of logic (but since it's Java, less logic than usual). I could say the same about C#, however the primary difference is that C# doesn't induce the sensation of dying brain cells. If you picture this in your head, make sure to add agonized screams as the brain cells die off one-by-one.
I approve of this description of Java
umad
It's like watching Homer trying to make cereal.
Guy who can't get a job or finish first year of compsci at uni goes on rampage attempting to belittle others. Your actions have spoken far louder than words you type.
OH LOOOK SOMEONE SUMMONSED HIM! I SAW HIM POST IN ANOTHER THREAD AND COULDN'T BELIEBER IT SO I CAME HERE TO CHECK!
I just scan Oddball's posts to see if she's mentioned me.
I cum buckets when she does.
I like this new Oddball.I'd pretend to read it, whilst checking out you, checking out the got girl at the counter.
He's really livened this place up.
If he wrote a book, I would pick it up in a store and pretend to read it while checking out the hot girl at the counter.
I'd check out Xeno, checking out Spacemonkey while he read some weird book.I like where this is going.
Because I am the hot chick at the counter.
Another thing to add to the list of things I hate about Minecraft.I also do not play Minecraft.
Did I mention I hate Minecraft?
Mostly I'm just jealous.
And now I'm living the dream, but not because of the job or degree but because they gave me an iphone 5s and I didn't have to give any money to apple to obtain it!!