Topic: My car tuning story/diary...

Offline Ares Helix

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 After a wrong turn took us through central Tauranga on a Saturday morning, we
lost touch with the Cobra, who'd go on to be one of the first back, we headed over
the Harbour and found berth C69 and had a picture taken with the captain. We had
a brief chat and, to our astonishment, he had no clue what was going on! After
completing the challenge at the marina, we headed to the mount, not one of my
favorite places if I'm honest and even less so after the cannonball.

 Our mission was to find a particular person on the beach, complete the task he had
for us, answer his questions and get on our way. Unbeknownst so both us and the
organizers, was the surf life-saving competition on that weekend, meaning most of
the beach was shut off and even worse was the lack of parks. The lads piled out of
the car whilst I drove in circles for the better part of an hour and a half.

The guys eventually tracked him down and waited in the line only to be told the driver
needed to be present, they found me, and in turn I found a park about 20 minutes
away from the beach. I sprinted up the road, getting a lot of odd looks as i did so, I
suppose not too many people are used to seeing a guy sprinting up the road in orange
camo pants and combat boots, especially with blue purple and orange hair...

 We waited in line for another fifteen minutes or so, and then headed off to complete
the challenges at a rocky outcrop on the eastern beach. Steps counted, pump house
identified and photographs taken, we made our way back to the car. Our next stop was
plumbing world in Rotorua for lunch. We were all a little hungry though, so we decided
to pit in at BK to grab something to eat. After a short chow, we were back on the road.
Sadly, pretty much as soon as we headed out, Drew started feeling really ill. We got a
tad lost and lost a lot of time trying to find our way back on course.

 After some of the most fierce roads I've ever had the chance to play on we arrived in
Rotorua. Drew was really bad by this stage, so we sat him down in the shade and got
him some drinks. I decided after a rest of about half an hour that the three of us should
call it and head back to Auckland. The guys were dissapointed, but at the end of the
day, the lads are more important than the adventure.

 We charged up state highway one with a couple of brief stops along the way and rolled
into auckland around 7:30 dropped off our downed team mate, then headed back to
Albany to the start finish line. We weren't the last team to get back, but again, because
we'd forfeited already there wasn't much point to the meeting, though my wife was waiting
for us/being hit on by the sponsors. Her S2000 looked the part in the car park with the
rest of the cannonballers and a huge smile and hug waited for us when we arrived. Cam
and I handed in our mission pack, such as it was, and grabbed a drink (non alcoholic as I
was driving and he was under age) and had a chat and relaxed for a few minutes before
heading home. All up it was a great day, even with a few small mishaps along the way.
I guess that's the thing about runs like these, it's the things you don't expect that shape
the day.

 So the big question was: how did the car perform?

 Aside from the aforementioned engine knocking, the biggest concern was my oil temperature
guage. 80% of the time it was fine, and whilst it didn't ever rise above half way, on the
uphills, it did get to about 100 to 110 degrees, not good. As well as that, whislt on boost,
I noticed a more pronounced 'flutter' from the turbo, usually on higher boost levels. Still the
car had done well and I was certain that I was 90% of the way to my goal...

 So Where to next?

Reply #50 Posted: May 21, 2010, 01:39:57 pm
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Offline Ares Helix

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 If you've asked me at any stage of this build, what's next, you'll know by now when I
say: "Yep, my new xyz just arrived and it's the last part of the build" I'm lying to your
face. I mentioned earlier that the tuning bug is infectious and I really wasn't joking.
 The Cannonball had got me thinking. Why was my car knocking? Why was it heating up?

 It was the third week of January when Bob finally called me and asked how things were
and if I'd like to come in for the tune that didn't happen, due to the guy being in hospital.
I rocked up with the flatmate the following Saturday and was thrown straight on the dyno.
The results were less than the previous two tunes, way less. The curves matched up
pretty well to the initial tune, but with the turbo coming in almost a grand later in the rev
range. Again, the turbo rebuild was blamed, and Bob refused to believe I'd been quoted
$2700 excluding GST by the guys he reccomended. On his reccomendation, I placed an
order for a Trust Oil cooler kit, an HKS wastegate actuator and exhaust Cam gear, hoping
that these would alleviate the lag from the new turbine. It was also at this point I enquired
about guages and monitoring gear capable of plugging into my car's head deck. He advised
me that for what I was after, an HKS Camp 2, system, with additional sensors, would do
the trick, and said that if I ordered one online they'd install it for me.
 I left a bit crest fallen and waited for the call from Bob.

 Ok, I need to put in here a reminder, I HATE waiting.

 Three months later, still no call from Bob. I decided to take matters into my own paws
and began to search for a supplier preferably NZ.I decided to go local again, for a number
of reasons.
 First off, I'd ordered a Blitz R-VIT DS online and asked: will this work with my gtt which has
a Power FC, the response being absolutely. Yeah, it didn't. I asked if I could return it and
they said they'd give me 50% back, due to 're-stocking fees'.
Fail.
So it's sitting at home if anyone wants to buy it.

 I then hit up ebay and got a full Camp 2 kit, with the Nissan CONSULT port adapter. Whilst
this connected, it didn't give any readings, as it wasn't able to interface with the ECU.
Double fail.
 I went in to Bob's the week I got it and he looked at me with shock:
"That won't work with your ECU"
"You told me to get it!"
 So with the extra sensors I got, it would work, BUT to install them, I'd need to remove
the sensors used by the ECU.
 Fail on so many levels.
 So I've got an HKS Camp 2 guage system sitting at home too...
 I was totally over it, I work in customer service and I know that saying no to a
customer isn't all that nice, but it's better than giving them incorrect advice that leads
them to lose a tonne of money!

 By this stage I was totally over everything and didn't know who to talk to about things.
The whole experience had left me ver disillusioned with the people I was dealing with and
I was even considering selling the car and going back to something less tunable...

Reply #51 Posted: May 24, 2010, 12:05:30 pm
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Offline Ares Helix

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 It was about here when I got an MSN message one morning from Dave, the guy who
tuend my car before the Cannonball run. He was checking up to see how things were
and offered to go for a drive to do some tinkering. I explained everything that had
happened with Bob and he was astonished and agreed that I'd been treated unfaily.
We set dowwn a plan to grab some gear through a local parts company, which I'd have
installed by Ralph, then get Dave to do a re-tune whilst driving.
 Dave also tracked down an intake cam gear as well as an exhaust gear from a parts
site in Australia. I ordered both of these and a replacement 'superspark' coil pack, which
all arrived in short order. It's interesting to note that Bob mentioned that there were no
cam gears for the intake side of the engine, due to the variable cam system (NVCS).
This was in fact incorrect! Dave had tracked down a timing gear that bolts on to the
existing 'NVCS' hub, allowing for better fitment of the timing belt and for small
adjustments to the timing to be made.

 Meanwhile, I managed to place a massive order with a parts company in Wellington.
I'd say next to Dave, they've been the biggest help with things so far, not only sourcing
hard to find parts, but also putting up with my stream of emails and odd requests! I'm
not sure if they're wanting to be named through this forum thread, but I'll be happy to
recommend them to anyone who's after a good parts supplier (just PM me and I'll give
you the details).

 The order was for two 260 degree Tomei Camshafts (intake and exhaust), as well as
the previously mentioned Oil cooler kit and wastegate actuator. I decided to get the
cam's after talking to a friends friends who builds GTR engines and mentioned that I'd
see some good improvements from a new set of mild cams.On Ralph's advice, I decided
to get the valve lifters replaced with new factory spec hydraulic lifters, and of course,
we'll be needing new belts as well. The Michelen tyres on the car are looking a little
knackered, but I'm booked in next week, for a wof and a new set of bridgestones.

 As of today, I'm still waiting for the Cams and actuator to arrive. Once they're here,
it'll be a matter of throwing it all at the car and seeing what the result is. I'm pretty
nervous about it to tell the truth!

 Once that's squared away, I'll maybe look at a front mount and/or induction kit, but
again, as my original brief was a stock looking monster, I guess we'll need to see what
happens after it's all been tuned up.

 That brings us up to date! Crazy!

 I'll post some conclusions shortly and my thoughts on the process, I'll also see if i can
find some (more) pictures somewhere for ya too.

 For now, maybe we can go to Q&A again?

Reply #52 Posted: May 24, 2010, 12:54:14 pm
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Offline Menial

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More pictures? You haven't posted any.

Reply #53 Posted: May 24, 2010, 01:33:52 pm


Offline Ares Helix

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Page one, mate!





Yep, that's the one!
There's a shot of me on the cannonball I'm after from a mate, i'll post it up when I get :)

Reply #54 Posted: May 24, 2010, 01:58:44 pm
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Offline Apteryx

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Sounds like a lot of highs and lows, bro I would be soo put off after those sensor hassles. I know that exact feeling where you feel like giving up and going to something hassle free would be the best choice.

Keep us updated, I would imagine changing the cams should indeed give some nice performance inprovements.

Reply #55 Posted: May 24, 2010, 02:44:30 pm
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Offline Ares Helix

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 Seeing this lot all written down in hindsight makes me regret that I didn't keep better
track of things I did when I did them. You can always re-trace steps and most people will
know what they've put in their car, but from writing this, it's much easier to tell the tale
as you go. I guess that'd be the biggest thing I'd do differently if I went through this
again.

 So conclusions? (part 1!)

 Firstly, and I can't stress this enough, find someone who you know and trust to work with.
Generally I reccomend to most people that having a mechanic you have a working relationship
with is a very good idea. As you get to know them, and they you, they'll begin to get a feel
for you as a client of theirs and will start to reccomend things to try/look at. I was lucky
with my flatmate and with Ralph, as I met them by chance whilst working at JBHiFi! They both
now know me as a mate and have a solid handle on where I want things to go and what I mean
when I say stuff or describe a problem. Once you've got someone like this on board, it's a
good idea to have them on hand when dealing with an outside party. Remember, tuning and
performance places don't do the job simply for the love of it, it's a job for them, so they
aim to make money! By having someone, mechanically minded, that you know and trust in
meetings with performance people, you'll not only have someone there who can translate what
they're talking about, but someone who'll be able ask the questions you might not know to
ask and also who can query prices and parts quoted. They can also interpret data from dyno
runs on a more technical level, so are good to have on hand.

 This leads neatly to the next point. Dyno's are a useful tool to be sure, BUT don't rely on
them to show you every last thing about the vehicle. first off, as I experienced with the
tune for the cannonball, dyno's can provide 'too perfect' an environment. By this, I mean
that a dyno usually incorporates a wind tunnel-esque fan system, to simulate air rushing
past the car. However, this also means that the dyno will be a lot colder in most
circumstances than reality so the tune may be set incorrectly for driving conditions.
lso to note; dyno's can be scaled to show you all sorts of info in very different ways, meaning
the output can be 'coloured' to show what they want you to see! Again, having an expert
there can help you understand this...

Reply #56 Posted: June 01, 2010, 01:19:56 pm
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Offline Ares Helix

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Conclusions part 2 (no this isn't going to turn into an Usher song...)

 Through the above process, I guess the one thing that's been constant is my instincts.
Whilst I've been taught to respect trade professionals and hold them with high regard, at
certain points during this lot, my instincts told me that I was being played for a fool. I
can't say this loud enough, if you don't like how something sounds, walk away and find a
second/third opinion. Again, having contact in the mechanical world helps in this area.

 Finally I'd say my biggest failing was not doing enough resaerch into what's available for
tuning for your prospective car. Don't lie to yourself, if you're buying a car and have a
notion to tune it, be honest and try to set a budget. To add to this, don't be afraid to
question things and ask questions about what's being done or about parts etc. It's how
I've learned a lot about what various parts and components do and it also keeps you in
the loop!

 Heh, hind-sight eh, where would we be without it? (a damn site happier I bet!)

 All up, I guess that's us. I've got a few more updates about where to next, which i'll put
up soon but that's my story. I'd like to thank the academy... wait, wrong speech... I'd like
to thank Ralph and Dave especially for their input and advice (also their engine work and
tuning!) the guys in Wellington for again, putting up with my 'million questions a day
before buying one part' policy, you guys rock and I'd never have learned so much without you
all. I'd also like to thank Bob for his efforts...
...I'd like to thank him...

 My flatmates and friends for putting up with my concerns and my incessant prattling on
about my car. Yep I love my car, but I also love you guys for the support and enthusiasm
you've shown me throughout this project.

 My beautiful wife, for always being there and that 'oh god, not more' smile and shake of
the head whenever I start the "I've been thinking about..." conversations. I'm so lucky to
have an understanding, petrolhead wife who gets where I'm coming from with things...

...you know the S2000's next right :P

 Finally, you guys too, being able to vent about /reflect on /set down what's happened has
been a huge help for me, and your support has been really great, thanks all!

 Two more posts for this story/blog/whatever it is :

 The before and after of my final build...
 ...With pics!
It'll be a while coming, but we'll get it done for you, as a way to say thanks for
following! :)

Cheers all.

-Ares-

Reply #57 Posted: June 10, 2010, 01:35:52 pm
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Offline enzyme

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Nice man, a good read

Reply #58 Posted: June 10, 2010, 02:49:27 pm

Offline Ares Helix

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Well, here we are.

It's been the better part of four months and whilst the car hasn't changed too much
in that time, things have ceratinly progressed!

First off, I've had the opportunity to drive on three tracks. Last week I had the opportunity
to take my beastie around Hampton Downs for a lil belt, thanks to the BMW driver
training school. Was a lot of fun, but again, highlighted the need for better cooling
(oil temp 130 degrees...) Previously I did a course with BMW driver training at Pukekohe,
but sadly this was using their 5 series diesels, not my boy blue. The course focused on
advanced accident evasion techniques and the basics of track driving.

The other track is nothing of importance, but was the reason I did the driver training in
the first place. After heading over to the UK on our honeymoon, my wife and i caught
the eurostar to France where we caught up with some family friends. After a whirlwind
tour of Paris on the Friday we arrived, we hired a car and drove from Paris to a little out
of the way town in Germany called Adenau. We arrived late in the day on Saturday afternoon
and had some forms to sign. The next morning we arrived at the car hire place and
picked up our second hire car and set off with an instructor in the front passenger seat.
Drove down to the end of the lane, turned right. Drove down a hill to a round-about
and turned right, then down a road/drive between two car parks and again another right.
We came to a stop at a barrier arm and swiped a card. The arm went up, and we drove
on to the Nurburgring.

We did a single lap with the instructor fropm RSR Nurburg giving us a run through of
the corners, then dropped him back and headed back for another four laps. What
an amazing experience it was! Similar to the track you'd play on the xbox but a bit
wider and, truth be told, a bit easier to handle!

 After our laps we jumped back into our lil hire car, back down the autobhan to France
and back to our friends place for dinner and the World Cup final.

Given this is more about the Skyline, I'll keep things about the Nurburgring brief, suffice
it to say that if you're into cars, it's worth the trip over.

Now, the R34...
Where were we... :)

Reply #59 Posted: October 05, 2010, 01:31:03 pm
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Offline Scorched_onion

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How about sum pics! :)

Reply #60 Posted: October 05, 2010, 05:52:57 pm

Asus P5Q P45 | Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @ 3ghz, from 2.33 | HD6850 1gbGDDR5 | NZXT Tempest | Seagate 1TB | Gigabyte Odin Pro 550w | 4GB (2x2GB) G.SKILL DDR2-1000 | Windows 7 Ultimate x64 | BenQ T2200HD 22" 1920x1080 | Microsoft Sidewinder x8 Gaming Mouse | Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard | Logitech Z2300 2.1

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Offline Scream

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How about sum pics! :)

Somehow I get the feeling you're on his ignore list. :O

Reply #61 Posted: October 05, 2010, 08:08:21 pm
I have too many usernames.. look at my linked accounts haha.

Offline Scorched_onion

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Hahahah

Reply #62 Posted: October 05, 2010, 08:30:00 pm

Asus P5Q P45 | Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 @ 3ghz, from 2.33 | HD6850 1gbGDDR5 | NZXT Tempest | Seagate 1TB | Gigabyte Odin Pro 550w | 4GB (2x2GB) G.SKILL DDR2-1000 | Windows 7 Ultimate x64 | BenQ T2200HD 22" 1920x1080 | Microsoft Sidewinder x8 Gaming Mouse | Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard | Logitech Z2300 2.1

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Offline Ares Helix

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Lol, I've put pics up! Honest! See page two!!!
I've got a few from Germany, but the ring runs a very strict 'no camera' policy. Given we were in one of RSR's cars (and a bit hung over), we didn't think it'd be a good idea to take pics on the track...


This be the lil clio cup we took round. May not look like much, but it'll destroy 'tegs without thinking twice. Good lil FF.


And this be the view from our hotel, which you can actually see in Forza 3.

Reply #63 Posted: October 06, 2010, 08:06:05 am
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Offline Spigalau

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Reply #64 Posted: October 06, 2010, 08:32:12 am
49 20 63 61 6e 20 72 65 6d 65 6d 62 65 72 20 77 68 65 6e 20 74 68 65 20 61 69 72 20 77 61 73 20 63 6c 65 61 6e 20 61 6e 64 20 73 65 78 20 77 61 73 20 64 69 72 74 79 2e

Offline Ares Helix

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Yeah, fully. I'd have take a Lotus around if we'd had the cash, but you pay a lot for the experience. All up, the Clio we were in, insurance, fuel and laps came to about $800-1000 but again, imho it was money well spent.

Reply #65 Posted: October 06, 2010, 08:39:23 am
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Offline Apteryx

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Wow that looks awesome, I literally have a new entry into my bucket list :)

My brother lives in france, so when I visit him, I will visit the ring too :D

Reply #66 Posted: October 06, 2010, 11:23:07 am
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Offline Ares Helix

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RSR

John from RSR was an amazing instructor. Gave us some great tips and then left us to it. Nurburgring instructors are allowed in the car with you for more than one lap but cost a lot more.

Heh, if money wasn't an option, I think the Lotus two eleven they had would have been amazing...

The drive from Paris to Adenau took about four to five hours and was actually pretty easy thanks to the GPS we had been loaned. Open road limit in france once we were out of Paris was 130km then after luxembourg we were on unrestricted autobhan for a good chunk of it. TBH though the ring was so much better than the Autobhan!

Reply #67 Posted: October 06, 2010, 11:37:11 am
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Offline Ares Helix

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Unbeknownst to most of the world, but knownst to a lot of us here at home, New Zealand
has a very rich and proud history where motorsports are concerned. Be it the Rally
skills of the late Possum Bourne or the high tech genius of Bruce McClaren, for our
size, NZ certainly has contributed and still contributes to motorsports.

Fans of all forms of racing will be aware of the superb new track being laid out just
south of Auckland, Hampton Downs raceway park. It's location is ideally situated close
to the Meremere drag-way and is only about a half hour trip over the Bombay hills from
Auckland. Designed to an international standard, and built privately to accomodate all
forms of motorsport, it's really something else.
I could go on, about it, but I'll leave things with it's definately a world class
track.

My first time there, was merely as the first stop of last year's aforementioned
cannonball run.Whilst there were a fair few NZD1 cars present, we didn't get onto the
track at all, due to the time constraints of the day and out of courtesy for the drift
lads, which was a little dissapointing for all, but understandable.

Skipping forward nine months, I found myself with an email invite from the BMW driver
training team, to an open track day at Hampton Downs. Without a second thought I
sorted the day off, paid for my entrance and gave Cameron, my cousin-in-law, a yell
and we were off. Well, the morning of the track day we were off...

After a safety brief and a dividing of cars between crazy and insane, we went out for
a sighting lap. No Dramas here, but after the experts/crazy fast people had their
first play, our 'novice' group headed out to have a belt. We weren't out to break
records, just to have a good time and that we did. Over the course of the morning we
got many laps in and i was actually moved class wise to the expert group after our
first run.

The car was excellent, but lacked the power of the GTR's and GT3's we were in with,
also i didn't want to push things too far as My oil temp kept shooting for 130
degrees. After a good play we said our thanks and headed home with HUGE grins
plastered all over our mugs. Over the course of the drive back we let the car unwind
and take a breather.

I was happy with the results, and glad I'd got the chance to see what sort of feel
the car had on the track before the next build...

Reply #68 Posted: October 06, 2010, 02:28:23 pm
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Offline Donkey

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Quote from: Ares Helix;1317951

 My oil temp kept shooting for 130
degrees.

Thats not really that bad on the track. I had a VW Golf that would regularly hit 125 degrees at Pukekohe and Taupo, a turbo charged car would probably run a bit hotter.

Reply #69 Posted: October 06, 2010, 03:23:27 pm

Offline Ares Helix

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So, with the build fast approaching let's first review, then facepalm.

I'm wanting a bit more in the way of power and also to try to make my car better
utilize its current mods, so with that in mind here's the parts list:

First off, cooling. I've been running a little warm for my liking. I've picked up a little
knocking on higher boost levels which could be attributed to in-effcient cooling post
turbo. So I've sourced a new blitz front mount intercooler to aid in this. Also on the
cooling tip A trust/Greddy oil cooler kit, to replace the stock sandwitch plate.
Overall I feel that this should give me a more solid platform for the performance improvements.

Speaking of which, i was sold a pack of 'splitfire' spark coils, which I'm pretty sure have
turned out to be fakes (black coils, not blue...). So, a new pack of bright red coils courtesy
of superspark are ready to go in, to help with top end. Also to help the top end stuff, a
new wastegate actuator to make sure that the turbo's working better and not flapping
around so much on boost.

Taking a leaf from the N/A tuning book, I've decided to upgrade my cams and injectors too,
getting more power from the engine itself, meaning less reliance on Mr. Turbo and also a
shorter spool time. Along with the new 800cc injectors a nice new tomei fuel pressure
regulator to keep the flow from the nismo pump nice and even. The cams picked for the
job are Tomei type b, 260 degree procams, which will be matched up to trust/greddy timing
gears.

Phew! Once all this is done, it'll be back to the Dyno and a re-install of my ECU, which I
messed up the settings of recently due to user error (at the moment i'm running my factory
ecu) To be fair, bob's team didn't do the best job on the install, but I do think i managed
to stuff a setting somewhere.

Must learn not to tootu so much!

Reply #70 Posted: October 13, 2010, 01:04:38 pm
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Offline Scorched_onion

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Im jizzing...

Reply #71 Posted: October 13, 2010, 04:25:54 pm

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Offline Apteryx

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I think upgrading the cams and injectors is going to be a very good move, coupling that with uprating all the cooling systems also, you are going to be able to get some solid endurance going.

This is going to be a damned solid track vehicle, I'll be expecting to see some track times when this latest round of work is done :P

Reply #72 Posted: October 13, 2010, 05:56:50 pm
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Offline Ares Helix

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Latest and last! lol

I'm quite nervous about it tbh, not 100% sure why, but I guess it's always the same when you're getting mods done and aren't sure about the end result. Might need to look at new solid lifters too depending on their condition, might chat to my mechanic about that tonight. And I'm dying to get the ecu back in, the car is a pig to drive on the factory system (though to be fair, i think it's just because it's not what I'm used to)

I've got a mate lined up to take some before and after pics, as well as some pics of the gear before it goes in too, so should have some good snaps for you guys.will also see if I can find some dyno charts to post up :)

Reply #73 Posted: October 14, 2010, 09:35:00 am
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Offline Ares Helix

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Sometimes life takes us in a direction we thought we didn't want to go. Sometimes
we're somewhat cornered into situations, we think may not be all that flash. Weather
you believe in a higher power or karma or fate, we can all admit that, when we're
cornered and have to get out of our comfort zone and think differently, we learn.

So it is that, the story now up to date, we find ourselves at Labour weekend, 2010.
After a run in with the dentists yesterday, I came up with a plan that, all going
well, will allow me to have the car, 'Big Blue' as we've come to know him, up and
running for the 2011 Cannonball run.

My mechanic, Ralph, has a backlog of other vehicles that will stop him from working
on mine til mid November. After a moment of inspiration, a few phone calls and a big
chunk of luck I was able to contact another guru of Auckland (and NZ's) motorsport
scene. Guru Raj is very secretive however, so as such, I've done the usual and Guru
Raj he shall be! Having a few chats on and off, over the last few weeks, he wasn't
surprised at all; as I called him when he was picking up the phone to call me! He
mentioned that he had some time free over the weekend or early next week. A few
calls later, a trip to Ralphs to pick up some parts and we're getting our build on!

So, as Ralph is busy til November, I'm getting Guru Raj to sort the injectors, fuel
pressure regulator, new spark coils, camshafts and gears. He's also going to double
check seals and gaskets and finish off with a nice new kevlar belt. During this process
he'll assess some of the finer points of the valve train and also have a look at my
pesky traction control and ecu.

WIN!

After it's up and running again, I'll get it down to Ralphs, where he'll install the
wastegate actuator, inter-cooler and oil cooler. Then back to Raj's and a final dyno
tune.

Excitement and nervous in double measure here at the moment! Wahoo!

Reply #74 Posted: October 22, 2010, 01:47:03 pm
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