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General => General Chat => Topic started by: Bell on June 07, 2013, 07:59:07 pm

Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 07, 2013, 07:59:07 pm
The NSA has had direct access to your personal data stored with Apple,Google,Facebook,Skype,Microsoft since 2007 and the US Government is currently defending this.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html?hp&_r=0
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: swindle on June 07, 2013, 08:17:13 pm
Lucky I'm small fish I guess.

Someone grab stuxnet and destroy these cunts.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 07, 2013, 08:29:38 pm
Well since it seems that stuxnet is a joint US-Israel creation i'm not sure that will work :(
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: BerG on June 07, 2013, 08:44:31 pm
Dammit, I'm gonna have to stop organising my terrorist attacks on Facebook.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 07, 2013, 09:31:31 pm
Seems similar things have been done before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

And also relevant
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/04/16/article-2309906-19536F51000005DC-552_634x408.jpg)

 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309906/Is-NSA-building-1-2billion-data-center-spy-Americans-Utah-desert-facility-monitor-emails-U-S-citizens.html#ixzz2VULrmuQ6
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 10, 2013, 08:17:23 am
Quote from: BerG;1526615
Dammit, I'm gonna have to stop organising my terrorist attacks on Facebook.

Maybe we can organize our terrorist attacks via NZ post. It will help them with their business.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 10, 2013, 01:46:11 pm
Quote from: Bell;1526609
[url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/us-tech-giants-nsa-data[/url]


That PowerPoint looks like it was made by school kids, it's horrible looking.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Emrico1 on June 10, 2013, 02:17:15 pm
That's because powerpoint is aids
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 10, 2013, 05:26:06 pm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video[/url]

This guy is awesome, he's certainly far more intelligent than Bradley manning.
He had access to a shitton of information but only released stuff in the public interest to respected journalists who deducted further information.
I'm a massive fan of the Guardian now.

Quote
Q: Why did you decide to become a whistleblower?

A: "The NSA has built an infrastructure that allows it to intercept almost everything. With this capability, the vast majority of human communications are automatically ingested without targeting. If I wanted to see your emails or your wife's phone, all I have to do is use intercepts. I can get your emails, passwords, phone records, credit cards.

"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things … I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded. That is not something I am willing to support or live under."
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 10, 2013, 06:41:44 pm
how is this guy not dead yet?

bruce willis in a blackhawk etc
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: SteddieEddie on June 10, 2013, 07:58:41 pm
I've resigned myself to the fact that everything I do on the internet is tracked or could be if needed.

Same with my cell phone.

Info is being filtered all the time, most of it just goes down the drain but some of it pans out and we have a terror plot uncovered before peeps die.

Don't like it, send a letter, you know pen and papyrus
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 10, 2013, 08:28:08 pm
I think you would have to be very naive if you think this sort of data will only ever be used to stop terrorism.
As a New Zealander would you be comfortable with the United States under someone like Bush using all of our government/business and citizens information for their own nations benefit?
As the Snowden rightly points out if they allow this to continue and grow with the current rate of technology growth these tools will just get even more powerful and then it won't take much for some senator to decide this asset should be used for far more than terrorism.

Eg. The US might want to revoke our No nukes policy to allow them to use our ports to refuel their fleet, they then start blackmailing those in our government and threatening to release scandals or other personal information that would hurt their re-elections unless they vote to revoke.

Not that far fetched especially in a decade or two.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: swindle on June 10, 2013, 08:37:07 pm
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526726
Don't like it, send a letter, you know pen and papyrus

Wow.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 10, 2013, 10:08:18 pm
A Vietnam era whistle-blowers take.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7wXVWjVfSY

I disagree with him in mannings case, I really think Manning was reckless and released everything he had due to his contempt of the US military.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Retardobot on June 10, 2013, 11:05:22 pm
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526726
I've resigned myself to the fact that everything I do on the internet is tracked or could be if needed.

Same with my cell phone.

Info is being filtered all the time, most of it just goes down the drain but some of it pans out and we have a terror plot uncovered before peeps die.

Don't like it, send a letter, you know pen and papyrus

HEY GUYS, I FOUND THE REPUBLICAN.

HE'S RIGHT HERE.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 11, 2013, 08:30:51 am
Quote from: Bell;1526730
The US might want to revoke our No nukes policy to allow them to use our ports to refuel their fleet,

I think we should allow them to use our ports to refuel their fleet.  


Back on topic, it's interesting that the named companies (Google, Microsoft etc) deny they have any knowledge of this, while the US government has said it's all real. Will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 11, 2013, 01:30:39 pm
Quote from: Spacemonkey;1526751
I think we should allow them to use our ports to refuel their fleet.  

especially seeing as your cant/don't refuel nuclear vessels....
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 11, 2013, 06:47:05 pm
Sigh... you know that's not the point :P
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: SteddieEddie on June 11, 2013, 09:02:19 pm
Quote from: Bell;1526730
I think you would have to be very naive if you think this sort of data will only ever be used to stop terrorism.
As a New Zealander would you be comfortable with the United States under someone like Bush using all of our government/business and citizens information for their own nations benefit?
As the Snowden rightly points out if they allow this to continue and grow with the current rate of technology growth these tools will just get even more powerful and then it won't take much for some senator to decide this asset should be used for far more than terrorism.

Eg. The US might want to revoke our No nukes policy to allow them to use our ports to refuel their fleet, they then start blackmailing those in our government and threatening to release scandals or other personal information that would hurt their re-elections unless they vote to revoke.

Not that far fetched especially in a decade or two.

I dont think it is me being naive.

Of course they have to monitor the internet, it is such a powerful tool that doesn't respect many borders.
 I am reading more and more about Chinese cyber attacks on american sites both private and government. Israel (US) just set back Irans nuclear programme  years with a cyber attack. This will imo become more common over time as the internets reach expands and we rely on it more everyday. The power of the internet was a big part in the Arab uprising, which I'm sure wasn't unnoticed by many governments.

Any super power will have to have a huge cyber team ( for want of a better phrase) to monitor and try to control the internet in their country against both foreign and local threats and to use the internet to fuck with their enemies.
 
It is simply too big of a tool to be left unchecked.

The pure weight of information they have to sift through on the net must mean they can only skim through the content using keywords etc and then zero in when they smell something fishy. Surely they can't store all that info. I don't think it will make much diff to the likes of us talking shit on a nz gaming site

As for your example, governments have been spying on and blackmailing each other since year dot so no change there. As they say in boxing, protect yourself at all times.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 11, 2013, 09:48:28 pm
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526834
The pure weight of information they have to sift through on the net must mean they can only skim through the content using keywords etc and then zero in when they smell something fishy. Surely they can't store all that info. I don't think it will make much diff to the likes of us talking shit on a nz gaming site

"The Utah Data Center, also known as the Intelligence Community Comprehensive National Cybersecurity Initiative Data Center is a data storage facility for the United States Intelligence Community that is designed to store data on the scale of yottabytes (1 yottabyte = 1 trillion terabytes, or 1 quadrillion gigabytes"

That is a ridiculous amount of data to be storing and I'm sure they will just be focusing on text storage and audio which has a much smaller footprint than video and pictures.
Just imagine how many emails you can store with 1 trillion terabytes and that's just with current technology what happens in 25 years especially when you compare it to how much data you could store in 1987.

The problem with this isn't nessassarly they are trying to capture data from cables etc, we have known that's been going on for along time and everyone does it, the big difference here is they have the biggest internet corporations in their back pocket who have been telling us that our data is safe and encrypted when send out into the wild.
That is still true but the NSA doesn't need to worry about encryption when they can access data straight from their data centers. Any company/government or person who wants to keep anything at all private on the internet has to pretty much write-off using any sort of cloud service, which sort of fucks over the whole internet thing.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 11, 2013, 10:51:11 pm
Personally i'm pretty annoyed that people seem all to willing to let massive data mining operations know everything they have ever done on the internet because they are scared of the terrorists who have less chance in killing them than they have of being struck by lightning.
How the fuck do NZers get to the point in not caring what the US does in the name of defending themselves against terrorism when NZ has barely been affected by it.
God forbid what people will be willing to give up when really under threat.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Pyromanik on June 11, 2013, 11:33:12 pm
Nah coz stenography.


I don't like it, but I also agree the internet can't run unchecked. Pedos 'n shit. Yuck, ain't no one got time fo' them.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 12, 2013, 08:36:38 am
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/s403x403/994269_680704678625655_894108309_n.jpg)
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 12, 2013, 08:38:54 am
Quote from: Pyromanik;1526849
I don't like it, but I also agree the internet can't run unchecked. Pedos 'n shit. Yuck, ain't no one got time fo' them.


I agree, child porn and stuff affects far more people and is more widespread then terrorism. And NZ is affected by it just as much as any other country.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 12, 2013, 10:57:42 am
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526834
I dont think it is me being naive.

Of course they have to monitor the internet, it is such a powerful tool that doesn't respect many borders.
 I am reading more and more about Chinese cyber attacks on american sites both private and government. Israel (US) just set back Irans nuclear programme  years with a cyber attack. This will imo become more common over time as the internets reach expands and we rely on it more everyday. The power of the internet was a big part in the Arab uprising, which I'm sure wasn't unnoticed by many governments.

Any super power will have to have a huge cyber team ( for want of a better phrase) to monitor and try to control the internet in their country against both foreign and local threats and to use the internet to fuck with their enemies.
 
It is simply too big of a tool to be left unchecked.

The pure weight of information they have to sift through on the net must mean they can only skim through the content using keywords etc and then zero in when they smell something fishy. Surely they can't store all that info. I don't think it will make much diff to the likes of us talking shit on a nz gaming site

As for your example, governments have been spying on and blackmailing each other since year dot so no change there. As they say in boxing, protect yourself at all times.

The point is that if there was a revolution, it would undoubtedly be organised via the internet. Not. Any. More.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Easymeat56k on June 12, 2013, 03:09:03 pm
(http://yuq.me/users/25/555/4zg56dUIhS.png)
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: SteddieEddie on June 12, 2013, 03:29:09 pm
Quote from: Bell;1526844
Personally i'm pretty annoyed that people seem all to willing to let massive data mining operations know everything they have ever done on the internet because they are scared of the terrorists who have less chance in killing them than they have of being struck by lightning.
How the fuck do NZers get to the point in not caring what the US does in the name of defending themselves against terrorism when NZ has barely been affected by it.
God forbid what people will be willing to give up when really under threat.

Been thinking on this and for me there are different layers to my privacy

Our personal privacy is sacrosanct, no reading my mail, wiretapping without a warrant and general fuckery when I am going about my lawful business and living my life in an open and fair democracy.

My virtual privacy I seem to have another outlook on, I don't expect the same level of privacy when I am engaging with the internet. I don't feel very comfortable with the idea that they can store everything we have done on the net but how the fuck do they commit the man power to look through it all. Surely after time "they" would have to dump old useless data.
 
We are debating the US coming clean about what they are doing but how many other states are doing exactly this and more and we hear nothing about it. China are committing huge resources to this type of espionage, as I'm sure is Putin.

It's 420 soon time for smoke signals :chuncky:
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 12, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526918
Been thinking on this and for me there are different layers to my privacy

Our personal privacy is sacrosanct, no reading my mail, wiretapping without a warrant and general fuckery when I am going about my lawful business and living my life in an open and fair democracy.

My virtual privacy I seem to have another outlook on, I don't expect the same level of privacy when I am engaging with the internet. I don't feel very comfortable with the idea that they can store everything we have done on the net but how the fuck do they commit the man power to look through it all. Surely after time "they" would have to dump old useless data.
 
We are debating the US coming clean about what they are doing but how many other states are doing exactly this and more and we hear nothing about it. China are committing huge resources to this type of espionage, as I'm sure is Putin.

It's 420 soon time for smoke signals :chuncky:

Algorithms.

Picture, Al Gore playing music, and that's pretty much it.

No but seriously I was thinking on this geeking out a wee bit, I'd love to see the algorithms they're using to filter that much information, it must be super impressive.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 12, 2013, 03:48:39 pm
I barely have any mail or use the phone everything is done on the internet and the way things are going I won't be a minority, you personal privacy is now heavily connected to your online privacy.
Also this current leak revealed the US was wiretapping an entire customer base of one phone company.

They don't really need man power to look through it all, they can use computer algorithms to sort through it all and because they seem to have access the data centers of the other tech giants means they already have the entire worlds full history of google, facebook, gmail, hotmail and skype messages.

You say oh they will just throw away old stuff, but those tech companies don't throw away anything because you want to have access to your old communications so they keep them for you.
Think of the incredible amount of information facebook has managed to store, now consider what a group focused on collected as-much private data as possible with funding from the US government can do.
I think you underestimate the power of computer technology now and in the future.

Yes we are debating about the US coming clean because they are apparently a democracy and love to talk about freedoms etc, you can't point at authoritarian states and suggest since they are dicks we should put up the US being dicks too.
I will also point out that China and Russia don't have access to the tech giants data because they don't have the secret agreements that the the US government has.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 12, 2013, 03:48:54 pm
I barely have any mail or use the phone everything is done on the internet and the way things are going I won't be a minority, you personal privacy is now heavily connected to your online privacy.
Also this current leak revealed the US was wiretapping an entire customer base of one phone company.

They don't really need man power to look through it all, they can use computer algorithms to sort through it all when the insane data centers they are building and because they seem to have access the data centers of the other tech giants means they already have your entire google,facebook,gmail,hotmail,skype and apple emails.
So say oh they will just throw away old stuff, but those tech companies don't throw away anything because you want to have access to your old communications so they keep them for you.
Think of the incredible amount of information facebook has managed to store, now consider what a group focused on collected as-much private data as possible with funding from the US government can do.

Yes we are debating about the US coming clean because they are apparently a democracy and love to talk about freedoms etc, you can't point at authoritarian states and suggest since they are dicks we should put up the US being dicks too.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 12, 2013, 04:02:48 pm
Data space is cheap and data takes up very little room. Basically they can keep everything for ever.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: SteddieEddie on June 12, 2013, 04:05:29 pm
Someone still has to sift through it tho eh?
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 12, 2013, 04:08:35 pm
What do you think happens when you type a google search?
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: deanox on June 12, 2013, 04:16:40 pm
Quote from: Bell;1526929
What do you think happens when you type a google search?

Magic!
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 12, 2013, 04:16:43 pm
Quote from: Bell;1526929
What do you think happens when you type a google search?

I get all these images of naked men.



I'm a doing it wrong?
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: swindle on June 12, 2013, 05:11:19 pm
lol

This is gold.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: PrinceTuiTeka on June 12, 2013, 05:20:09 pm
Quote from: SteddieEddie;1526927
Someone still has to sift through it tho eh?

Sift through it? They arent printing it and using highlighters here. Its electronic data. Think ctrl F on a huge scale.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Kopfjaeger on June 15, 2013, 11:32:54 am
PRISM in effect

http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/13/prism-fears-give-private-search-engine-duckduckgo-its-best-week-ever/ (http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/13/prism-fears-give-private-search-engine-duckduckgo-its-best-week-ever/)
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 15, 2013, 11:58:32 am
Interesting.

http://prism-break.org/

It seems now is a very opportune moment for anyone with a fledgling social network to pounce and grab some market share with the simple "NSA/PRISM free" statement
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 15, 2013, 01:39:37 pm
Quote from: Bounty Hunter;1527154
Interesting.

[url]http://prism-break.org/[/url]

It seems now is a very opportune moment for anyone with a fledgling social network to pounce and grab some market share with the simple "NSA/PRISM free" statement


I already use Bitcoin to buy all my illegal drugs.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 17, 2013, 02:55:55 pm
Quote from: Bounty Hunter;1527154
Interesting.

[url]http://prism-break.org/[/url]

It seems now is a very opportune moment for anyone with a fledgling social network to pounce and grab some market share with the simple "NSA/PRISM free" statement


Would I be correct in assuming that criminals would gravitate to these alternatives as a way to hide their activities. Just a guess really.

But if it were the case, then the security agencies should be more interested in these alternatives in an attempt to "catch the bad guys", although it would be far more difficult to do so due to encryption and the like, there would also be less data to go through because of their small market share. Just a theory I had.


'Opt out of PRISM' is a misnomer, I'm sure all those alternatives are targeted as well, the data would be just harder to sift though.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Pyromanik on June 17, 2013, 06:31:55 pm
"Opt out of PRISM" - use an open source browser and get your traffic tracked rather than using a close source browser and getting your traffic tracked.
derp derp derp derp derp
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Black Heart on June 17, 2013, 09:09:10 pm
I have to laugh at the invasion of privacy outrage, if Echelon is anything to go by, commercial espionage and stealing technology would be the big targets for PRISM.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 18, 2013, 12:20:46 am
I don't think it's laughable since there a big difference between PRISM and well known intercept methods.
Taking data from the destination bypasses encryption so noone can be sure their communications are secure.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Black Heart on June 19, 2013, 09:56:20 am
Thats not why its laughable. It's laughable because peoples shitty life details, as disturbing and sick as they probably are, wouldn't be of much interest compared to commercial information on deals and new technology.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bounty Hunter on June 19, 2013, 11:35:34 am
Quote from: Black Heart;1527358
Thats not why its laughable. It's laughable because peoples shitty life details, as disturbing and sick as they probably are, wouldn't be of much interest compared to commercial information on deals and new technology.

no kidding, but while you're at it you might as well grab everybodies details?
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 19, 2013, 12:07:33 pm
The original story was quite misleading. The NSA doesn't have direct access to the companies (Microsoft, Google) servers. The companies will provide information if requested as per the law, but they have said themselves this is only a small fraction of the total data they have.

They could be lying, but I don't see how it is in their benefit to do so.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 19, 2013, 06:30:52 pm
The higher ups have security clearance and by law can't talk about the details.
Title: Internet privacy is dead.
Post by: Bell on June 19, 2013, 06:37:13 pm
Quote from: Black Heart;1527358
Thats not why its laughable. It's laughable because peoples shitty life details, as disturbing and sick as they probably are, wouldn't be of much interest compared to commercial information on deals and new technology.


If they have the capability I don't see why they wouldn't store all of that shit. You might not care if you have no plans to become someone of note/power but i'm pretty sure groups like the CIA would love to have private details in their pockets when dealing with politicians or international business men.