Get Some
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Apostrophe Spacemonkey on June 11, 2013, 10:26:12 am
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I love it. This thing looks awesome.
(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/8362115/MacPro_PFH_PRINT_verge_super_wide.jpg)
http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
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Looks like a giant ass-pill.
I like ass-pills.
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Interesting concept. I like the idea of one massive heatsink that cools both gpu's and the cpu, sort of like a watercooling loop.
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it's machines aluminium! Do want case.
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I'd wear it on my head, like a top hat.
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Holy shit that is awesome.
I'm gonna buy one, just to have it sitting on my desk, looking all cool.
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Holy shit that is awesome.
I'm gonna buy one, just to have it sitting on my head, looking all cool.
Yes, we could go to a party together, with our Mac-Pro hats and black suits, and an attractive lady on the side.
Everyone will want to be us.
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Looks like a male self pleasure device.
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skateboard wheel
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Aftermarket gear knob.
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Looks like a popcorn maker.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B4suxQVUAQ
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Looks like a baby wipe dispenser.
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what the fuck is that.
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How to make something really inconvenient for small desks: Make it tall and a cylinder.
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How to make something really inconvenient for small desks: Make it tall and a cylinder.
It's ok you can make a cluster of them using a regular household wine rack.
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How to make something really inconvenient for small desks: Make it tall and a cylinder.
people don't buy a mac pro for a small desk.......
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Everything is wireless?
Where does the monitor go?
Why is that picture so goddamn fake?
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I guess I could nit pick.
But fuck, it might look like a big fucking butt plug and it still looks better then anything HP etc etc are doing desktop wise.
(http://iforce.co.nz/i/zy31501k.bkn.png) (http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=zy31501k.bkn.png)
Look at this poorly built pile of steaming shit. Ugly, and bound to break down and fuck your day right up.
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Everything is wireless?
Where does the monitor go?
Why is that picture so goddamn fake?
This slick multi million dollar animation has all the answers you require.
http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
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Thunderbolt for all the things Pyro.
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Go nicely next to the rubbish bin.
(http://okkaproducts.com.au/images/stories/virtuemart/product/14l-round-waste-bin.png)
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I'm not a mac fan, but I like innovation. To me this is a great idea for cooling. Its actually a wonder we stuck with trying to get air flow through rectangle boxes for so long.
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I'm not a mac fan, but I like innovation. To me this is a great idea for cooling. Its actually a wonder we stuck with trying to get air flow through rectangle boxes for so long.
Look under your car bonnet at the radiator, what shape is it ?
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I'm not a mac fan, but I like innovation. To me this is a great idea for cooling. Its actually a wonder we stuck with trying to get air flow through rectangle boxes for so long.
Totally agree.
This thing has no internal wires to get in the way of airflow. It's pretty much designed for perfect cooling.
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Look under your car bonnet at the radiator, what shape is it ?
I don't understand how this is relevant?
The engine compartment would be terrible for airflow.
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Look under your car bonnet at the radiator, what shape is it ?
Broken analogy? The radiator is shaped to make the most of the wall of air coming towards it. It has a tiny depth compared to its large surface area like any good heat sink. Whereas a pc case is more like the car chassis in that it houses the heatsinks and channels the flow of air over them.
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Theres a legitimate reason for rectangle boxes though, all to keep it modular, which has been the successful way for the last 30 years.
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Theres a legitimate reason for rectangle boxes though, all to keep it modular, which has been the successful way for the last 30 years.
Correct, and with this 'revolution' of design, everything will now be daisy chained across your desk via Thunderbolt.
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From what I have seen on the animation, it is still reasonably modular. Ram still slides in and out etc. And looks like you could pull the center cooling core and then unbolt the components from the frame. It may not like the lego style of component swapping PC users are used too, but it still has the potential to be modular.
Heat is one of the big restrictions on what we can get our electronics to do (Cue Bounty Hunter) and if this increases cooling as much as Apple is claiming (or even points further innovation in the right direction) it could lift the restriction a little.
Again, Im not a mac fan, but I was under the impression that they weren't really upgradable anyway? So in Apples case, modular construction isn't a concern? May be wrong on that point.
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The only 'downside' I see is it only has flash storage, very fast and great for the OS to start up on. But I'd have to stick my 2 terabyte hard drives on the outside.
However, a much more elegant solution would be some sort of fileserver, somewhere. So maybe it's for the best, there is no need for large capacity storage to be located within the case.
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Local (contained) storage may also be small & expensive.
(http://nofilmschool.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Mac-Pro-Clickthrough-Storage.jpg)
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I would put a domed cap on it and paint it up like R2D2!!
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^^ that I agree with. But adaption on the theme could allow the tower to be marginally taller allowing a block of magnetic storage to be put in the base maybe.
Edit: whoops, agree with spig, Deanox beat my post! ( though I agree that R2D2 would look cool)
Edit 2: Speaking of R2, it looks like they switched to cylinder cooling for droids a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away.
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Hell yes.
R2D2 themed Mac Pro, I would so get that.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/39/R2-D2_Droid.png/250px-R2-D2_Droid.png)
His front panel can open up to revel all the PC ports, you can pretend you are recharging him!
The air can vent out the top of his head.
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From what I have seen on the animation, it is still reasonably modular. Ram still slides in and out etc. And looks like you could pull the center cooling core and then unbolt the components from the frame. It may not like the lego style of component swapping PC users are used too, but it still has the potential to be modular.
Heat is one of the big restrictions on what we can get our electronics to do (Cue Bounty Hunter) and if this increases cooling as much as Apple is claiming (or even points further innovation in the right direction) it could lift the restriction a little.
Again, Im not a mac fan, but I was under the impression that they weren't really upgradable anyway? So in Apples case, modular construction isn't a concern? May be wrong on that point.
Two laws of thermo here:
Zeroth Law: If two systems are each in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.
Second Law: Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location. This implies that heat spontaneously flows flows from hot to cold.
So unless you can draw heat away from the heatsink, more efficiently than the heatsink can distribute heat, all sharing the heatsink will do is heat up the other processors thereby reducing their efficiency. If you could draw heat away from the heatsink more efficiently than it could distribute it, you wouldn't bother with a heatsink.
That fan blows the wrong way too, all it's going to do is suck up all the dust off the floor.....
The wires, jutting out bits etc etc in your computer don't harm airflow that badly.
Yeah it's all marketing hype bullshit....but i'll admit, it does look cool.
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From what I have seen on the animation, it is still reasonably modular. Ram still slides in and out etc. And looks like you could pull the center cooling core and then unbolt the components from the frame. It may not like the lego style of component swapping PC users are used too, but it still has the potential to be modular.
Heat is one of the big restrictions on what we can get our electronics to do (Cue Bounty Hunter) and if this increases cooling as much as Apple is claiming (or even points further innovation in the right direction) it could lift the restriction a little.
Again, Im not a mac fan, but I was under the impression that they weren't really upgradable anyway? So in Apples case, modular construction isn't a concern? May be wrong on that point.
Two laws of thermo here:
Zeroth Law: If two systems are each in thermal equilibrium with a third, they are also in thermal equilibrium with each other.
Second Law: Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location to a hotter location. This implies that heat spontaneously flows flows from hot to cold.
So unless you can draw heat away from the heatsink, more efficiently than the heatsink can distribute heat, all sharing the heatsink will do is heat up the other processors thereby reducing their efficiency. If you could draw heat away from the heatsink more efficiently than it could distribute it, you wouldn't bother with a heatsink.
That fan blows the wrong way too, all it's going to do is suck up all the dust off the floor.....
The wires, jutting out bits etc etc in your computer don't harm airflow that badly.
Yeah it's all marketing hype bullshit....
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That fan blows the wrong way too, all it's going to do is suck up all the dust off the floor.....
This was my only real query. Why stuck it up? Seems like there are more cons then pros here. I know sucking from the top would have its cons, but more pros I feel.
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from the website
It works by conducting heat away from the CPU and GPUs and distributing that heat uniformly across the core. That way, if one processor isn’t working as hard as the others, the extra thermal capacity can be shared efficiently among them.
I wonder how effective this will be.
With a normal PC we would have heatsink temps something like this (depending on what it's doing).
CPU - 50c
GPU1 - 25c
GPU2 - 30c
With the Mac Pro, the temps would be averaged out, i.e
CPU - 35c
GPU1 - 35c
GPU2 - 35c
It would be good for the CPU in this case, however the GPUs would get the same heat, even when sitting idle (and vice versa).
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from the website
I wonder how effective this will be.
With a normal PC we would have heatsink temps something like this (depending on what it's doing).
CPU - 50c
GPU1 - 25c
GPU2 - 30c
With the Mac Pro, the temps would be averaged out, i.e
CPU - 35c
GPU1 - 35c
GPU2 - 35c
It would be good for the CPU in this case, however the GPUs would get the same heat, even when sitting idle (and vice versa).
Yes and now your GPU's are working 17-40% less efficiently and they have 4-8% less temperature margin.
And your CPU is only working 40% more efficiently......
Seems pretty silly to me.
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The cooling system is similar to a watercooling loop with cpu & gfx cards in it.
If you base the size of your radiators (or heatsink) on the max heat output of all 3 chips (1xcpu and 2xgpus) then you are fine as you have enough surface area to happily keep them cool. But if the size of radiator (or heatsink) is based off only 2/3 of these items being at full load at any one time then you will run into trouble. Presumably you would think apple have allowed enough heatsink surface area to allow all the chips to be cooled at once.
I think the placement of the fan at the top is good. Heat rises, so its only natural to have the heat exhausted from the unit at the top. There are clear benefits to having one large fan, in that it can operate at a lower speed than multiple small ones while pushing a similar (or even larger) amount of air, and so is quieter.
EDIT:
Yes and now your CPU's are working 17-40% less efficiently and they have 4-8% less temperature margin.
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I wasn't aware that computer chips running at a higher temperature went slower, or required more power to operate. How does this work?
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The cooling system is similar to a watercooling loop with cpu & gfx cards in it.
Not quite. A water-cooled system just replaces the air with water as a heat conductor. The heat sinks of each component system are still separate.
The water gets pumped to the CPU first and draws away heat, then when it reaches the GPU heatsink, the water is still cooler then the heatsink, and will still draw away the heat.
Under no circumstances will the heat from one component ever be transferred to another.
I wasn't aware that computer chips running at a higher temperature went slower, or required more power to operate. How does this work?
Electrons have a harder time getting around when it's hot.
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Not quite. A water-cooled system just replaces the air with water as a heat conductor. The heat sinks of each component system are still separate.
The water gets pumped to the CPU first and draws away heat, then when it reaches the GPU heatsink, the water is still cooler then the heatsink, and will still draw away the heat.
Under no circumstances will the heat from one component ever be transferred to another.
You have a single large loop, in this loop there are two gpus, one cpu and a large radiator. The water removes the heat from the chip, and the radiator removes the heat from the water, putting it into the air. The radiator is essentially a heatsink, as it is transferring the heat into the air. The water just removes the heat from the chip faster than air could.
I don't see how one large w/c loop is different to one large heatsink. All the chips are still sharing the same cooling system. In one system they share a large heatsink, in the other they share a large radiator.
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The cooling system is similar to a watercooling loop with cpu & gfx cards in it.
If you base the size of your radiators (or heatsink) on the max heat output of all 3 chips (1xcpu and 2xgpus) then you are fine as you have enough surface area to happily keep them cool. But if the size of radiator (or heatsink) is based off only 2/3 of these items being at full load at any one time then you will run into trouble. Presumably you would think apple have allowed enough heatsink surface area to allow all the chips to be cooled at once.
I think the placement of the fan at the top is good. Heat rises, so its only natural to have the heat exhausted from the unit at the top. There are clear benefits to having one large fan, in that it can operate at a lower speed than multiple small ones while pushing a similar (or even larger) amount of air, and so is quieter.
EDIT:
I wasn't aware that computer chips running at a higher temperature went slower, or required more power to operate. How does this work?
Not quite. A water-cooled system just replaces the air with water as a heat conductor. The heat sinks of each component system are still separate.
The water gets pumped to the CPU first and draws away heat, then when it reaches the GPU heatsink, the water is still cooler then the heatsink, and will still draw away the heat.
Under no circumstances will the heat from one component ever be transferred to another.
Electrons have a harder time getting around when it's hot.
What monkey said, in the case of the mac pro the 3 heat elements are in thermal contact, whereas in a water cooling system the elements have air and coolant between them.
As things get warmer, they expand. At an atomic level the distance between any 2 atoms becomes further, meaning a higher voltage is required to push the electron this increased distance.
You have a single large loop, in this loop there are two gpus, one cpu and a large radiator. The water removes the heat from the chip, and the radiator removes the heat from the water, putting it into the air. The radiator is essentially a heatsink, as it is transferring the heat into the air. The water just removes the heat from the chip faster than air could.
I don't see how one large w/c loop is different to one large heatsink. All the chips are still sharing the same cooling system. In one system they share a large heatsink, in the other they share a large radiator.
Except the 3 heat sources aren't in thermal contact with one another.
http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/courseinfo/GetCourseDetails.aspx?course=PHYS101&occurrence=13S2(C)&year=2013
MIKE THERE'S STILL TIME FOR YOU TO LEARN!
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MS Paint!
(http://www.getsome.co.nz/attachment.php?attachmentid=7909&d=1371006311)
In a water cooled system, the water blocks are always going to be cooler then the chips they are connected to, so they will only draw heat away.
With the Mac Pro, we have the case where the chip will be cooler then the heatsink (i.e it's idle), and heat from the warmer heatsink would be transferred to the chip.
Unless Apple have done some technical magic to stop this.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]7909[/ATTACH]
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I don't think you understand my point.
Lets say the radiator is large enough to dissipate the heat of one chip at 100% load, but not three. What would happen then? The water going back to the chips would not be able to take the heat away from the chips, the waterblock would eventually heat up and shit would break, right?
Which is the same as what would happen if the heatsink in the apple pro was not big enough. If its too small to dissipate the heat, shit will break. But if the heatsink is massively huge, then it will work fine. Same as with a watercooling system, if the radiator is too small, the heat wont leave the system fast enough, and shit will break.
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I don't think you understand my point.
Lets say the radiator is large enough to dissipate the heat of one chip at 100% load, but not three. What would happen then? The water going back to the chips would not be able to take the heat away from the chips, the waterblock would eventually heat up and shit would break, right?
Which is the same as what would happen if the heatsink in the apple pro was not big enough. If its too small to dissipate the heat, shit will break. But if the heatsink is massively huge, then it will work fine. Same as with a watercooling system, if the radiator is too small, the heat wont leave the system fast enough, and shit will break.
Well they're both performing work in exchange for heat, but in that respect they're the same as a car engine.
And it is effectively the same amount of work to remove 3x 35 degrees as it is to remove 20 + 35 + 50, except in the latter watercooled system your system performance doesn't suffer from shared temperatures.
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The temperatures are shared though, because the item cooling them in each example is all one and the same.
In the w/c loop it's the water + radiator.
In the Apple Pro it's the heatsink.
A single water loop operates in much the same way as a single heatsink for multiple chips.
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Dafuq with all this math?
The thing looks cool. Just shut up and buy it.
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I guess I could nit pick.
But fuck, it might look like a big fucking butt plug and it still looks better then anything HP etc etc are doing desktop wise.
([url]http://iforce.co.nz/i/zy31501k.bkn.png[/url]) ([url]http://www.iforce.co.nz/View.aspx?i=zy31501k.bkn.png[/url])
Look at this poorly built pile of steaming shit. Ugly, and bound to break down and fuck your day right up.
Yeah but when you think about it HP are restricted by ATX format motherboards, which kinda enforce the huge brick layout, and ironically shit expansion capabilities since about any card you stick in a slot prevents almost all the other slots from being used.
eg. mobo advertising "WOW, 6 PCIe slots!" but you jam 2 gfx cards in there and boom, you can't put them in the first 2 slots because south bridge cooling is in the way, then you can't use the first slot because it's a mini slot, and every other card you wanna stick in the second slot (like sound) comes far too uncomfortably close to your first GFX, or is blocked by dual sided heatsink on it.
So 6 slots become 0 once you get the standard 2x GPU going on.
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Thunderbolt for all the things Pyro.
It'd be nice if that were the case.
But "All the things" in this case is about 3.
That fan blows the wrong way too, all it's going to do is suck up all the dust off the floor...
yes and no, heat rises and all that.
Lots of modern cases put the PSU fan down there (sucking up, coz exhaust is out the back), but no one seems to complain about that.
As for 'unified' cooling core, I think the 'unified' part will be that it all runs from the same impeller. The triangular heatsink will actually be three heatsinks, surely.
That or we're going back to the days of the mini ps2 where one keeps a can of water on the top to stop it from stalling from overheating.
And modularity? lulz, sif. It's apple. They make consoles that do real computer work instead of pretending they're not real computers.
Summary:
Things I like about this:
The cool form factor in that everything is built around a central cooler. Pretty fucking cool if you never want to update anything.
The things I don't:
Everything else, including the issues the form factor brings, like everything being around a central cooler. And how un-expandable it is.
I've long wondered why 'normal' computer motherboards limit themselves into the same shitty form factor, and have continued to do so for the past 15+ years.
Shit gets cramped, hot & hard to manage. At least this kinda deals with that a bit with some lateral thinking. But it's not expansion modular unless you intend to add memory through externally attached swap space (read: an ssd via thunderbolt purely for faux-memory purposes).
Yeah there have been things like mini itx, but they all generally follow the same format. Slots one over the other with a CPU on the top, ram & storage connections off to the side. All in one big shitty rectangle.
What if we had the ability to lay our machines out how we wanted? Imagine how cool it would be to structure your own case mod however you wanted because it didn't really matter where the components were so long as they connected up in the end.
A bit impossible at the moment because wires are shit and slow, but how cool would that be?
And then how cool would it be to modularise the components of the motherboard? What if you could leave out the sound from the south bridge in favour of independent and superior solutions (dedicated sound card), etc?
Kinda like arduino but for performance PCs.
(also, fuckup pc versus mac, mac IS a pc, always has been, forever will be.)
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Except the 3 heat sources aren't in thermal contact with one another.
Where aren't they in contact with each other? In the closed loop water cooling circuit, or the "single extruded piece of aluminum"?
([url]http://www.getsome.co.nz/attachment.php?attachmentid=7909&d=1371006311[/url])
That image is grossly exaggerated, it is a common misconception that water heats up as it goes around the loop; it, in fact, does not. The temperature of the entire loop only fluctuates by a fraction of a degree, no matter where you measure it. This is due to waters thermal properties and LOTSA PHYSX BRAH.
To iterate MCC's point:
There is very little real world difference between, attaching all components to a water loop, or all to one big heat-sink. A direct heat-sink of equivalent thermal dissipation to a radiator will result in the same temperatures assuming all other factors stay constant.
By attaching the components directly to the heat-sink they are merely reducing the "time" it takes from heat too go from a compnent to the heat-sink, metal -> metal conducts better than metal -> water -> metal. But the time it takes for heat transfer is irrelevant once the thermal dissipator reaches the critical heat transfer to air. This is where the difference will be seen, before you reach critical dissipation.
Also: Critical Dissipation. lul
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I was gonna reply to each of you but it's honestly not worth getting our knickers in a twist about.
It's just a dumb mac, and some boring heat sinks.
Playstation 4 and xbox are more interesting than this, seriously guys.
Although, discussion around pyro's idea of custom designing motherboards and PCB would be cool, except the poor bastard who has to lay all the track. We used the "auto-track" feature in altium pro a few weeks ago, it set up jumpers everywhere, though we only had 1 layer to work wit. I'm sure if you gave it 8 or 9 layers it'd do a half decent job. Your next problem would be noise, it's this whole other thing. And then you'd have muppets custom designing their mobo's with no CPU port or something....
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Yeah well I kinda envisioned more of an idea where you buy into a compatible system, rather than entirely designing your own Mobo. Chances are the companies who employ hundreds of eggheads can do a better job than most part time enthusiasts.
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Although, discussion around pyro's idea of custom designing motherboards and PCB would be cool, except the poor bastard who has to lay all the track. We used the "auto-track" feature in altium pro a few weeks ago, it set up jumpers everywhere, though we only had 1 layer to work wit. I'm sure if you gave it 8 or 9 layers it'd do a half decent job. Your next problem would be noise, it's this whole other thing. And then you'd have muppets custom designing their mobo's with no CPU port or something....
anyone who uses the default settings for auto route in altium should be taken out back and shot - even on 9 layer boards. your very very naughty bounty :)
default settings for auto route is like giving a 4 year old a colored marker and nice new painted wall
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anyone who uses the default settings for auto route in altium should be taken out back and shot - even on 9 layer boards. your very very naughty bounty :)
default settings for auto route is like giving a 4 year old a colored marker and nice new painted wall
no no no no dont get me wrong, we used the right settings, but we ran the auto-route wizard for a laugh....it was shit.
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That image is grossly exaggerated, it is a common misconception that water heats up as it goes around the loop; it, in fact, does not. The temperature of the entire loop only fluctuates by a fraction of a degree, no matter where you measure it. This is due to waters thermal properties and LOTSA PHYSX BRAH.
Got a source? Because I don't believe that.
Of course the water heats up. When you stick water next to something that's hotter, the water gets hotter. That's how my coffee is made.
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That water is only in contact with each 'hot object' for a fraction of a second. It's being passed through, it doesn't hang around to heat up.
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That water is only in contact with each 'hot object' for a fraction of a second. It's being passed through, it doesn't hang around to heat up.
Then where does the hotness go? The thermal energy must get transferred to the water, otherwise it would stay in the heat sink.
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From a plumber who worked in large scale commercial - Xeno is correct.
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From me burning my hand when I touch the radiator on my car, I don't think he is.
The water/fluid in the car cooling system starts out cold. Engine gets hot, fluid gets hot.
Why would it be different in the computer cooling setup?
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Have a read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat
BH can probably write a post or two on this explaining better than I can but :
TL;DR - Heat and temp are not the same. Temp can be a product of heat energy but not always.
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From me burning my hand when I touch the radiator on my car, I don't think he is.
The water/fluid in the car cooling system starts out cold. Engine gets hot, fluid gets hot.
Why would it be different in the computer cooling setup?
Its not, you just have a significantly higher temperature threshold with a cars cooling system.
Like with the water loop, the entire loop heats up, but the parts in question don't produce nearly as much heat as an internal combustion engine.
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Then where does the hotness go? The thermal energy must get transferred to the water, otherwise it would stay in the heat sink.
The heat transfers to the water, but because of the volume of the water and how quickly it moves through the loop (and being cooled again via the radiator) this heat is quickly dissipated. It doesn't allow it to heat up as much as you would think.
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The heat transfers to the water, but because of the volume of the water and how quickly it moves through the loop (and being cooled again via the radiator) this heat is quickly dissipated. It doesn't allow it to heat up as much as you would think.
But your saying it does heat up? If only a little bit?
Because that's always been my point. Xeno said it doesn't heat up.
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Have a read:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latent_heat[/url]
BH can probably write a post or two on this explaining better than I can but :
TL;DR - Heat and temp are not the same. Temp can be a product of heat energy but not always.
Latent heat is the energy required to change state? this is where you pump heat into the system but the temperature stays the same (because the system is changing state, for example, water changes from a fluid to a gas at 100 degrees Celsius but you can keep pushing heat in and the temperature will stay at 100 deg cel until the water is steam )
I think the assumption here is that we're working with a fluid which is not changing state, so either water below 100 deg/cel or oil.
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Hmm, yea sounds right. But heat can be latent without the change in phase right?
This physics is beyond me.
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But your saying it does heat up? If only a little bit?
My original argument was in support of Xeno, that the temp. of the water changes only by a fraction, so yes. I believe you were arguing that the water should heat up considerably?
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My original argument was in support of Xeno, that the temp. of the water changes only by a fraction, so yes. I believe you were arguing that the water should heat up considerably?
No sir.
I think he implied from my awesomely drawn diagram that the red colours was significantly hotter then the blue colour. I only meant to convey the transfer of thermal energy in a simplistic term, not indicate the absolute temperatures.
No harm done.
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No sir.
wat?
It is a common misconception that water heats up as it goes around the loop; it, in fact, does not. The temperature of the entire loop only fluctuates by a fraction of a degree, no matter where you measure it. This is due to waters thermal properties and LOTSA PHYSX BRAH.
Got a source? Because I don't believe that.
Of course the water heats up. When you stick water next to something that's hotter, the water gets hotter. That's how my coffee is made.
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It doesn't matter how many points you deal with in a water loop, and how hot they are, the whole loop will become the same temperature. Loop cooled efficiently, it will be a low temp :)
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We all understand that the temperature of the water will depend on the speed at which it passes the element right?
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I'm having red beans for tea.
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Im having sex and bacon
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This is clearly a giant Butt Plug so that Apple Fanbois can get even more intimate with their Macs....
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This is clearly a giant Butt Plug so that Apple Fanbois can get even more intimate with their Macs....
So you have already pre-ordered?
:p
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So you have already pre-ordered?
:p
If I was going to pre-order a Butt Plug - it certainly wouldn't be an Apple one.
I don't like the idea of paying twice the price for the logo on my butt plugs for the same amount of penetration
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The iButt pLug. Has a certain ring to it.
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So that is what Phillip Schiller meant when he said "Can't Innovate My Ass!"
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I want a waste disposal unit in the middle so when some fan boy tries to stick his dick in it... well you know.
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iFleshlight
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Its not, you just have a significantly higher temperature threshold with a cars cooling system.
Like with the water loop, the entire loop heats up, but the parts in question don't produce nearly as much heat as an internal combustion engine.
Engines also don't circulate water continuiously. The water is trapped and captures heat, then the thermostat opens and cool water flows in, hot flows out to be coolled in the radiator until the thermostat opens again.
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High five for starting a science discussion.
I think everything was answered.
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Engines also don't circulate water continuiously. The water is trapped and captures heat, then the thermostat opens and cool water flows in, hot flows out to be coolled in the radiator until the thermostat opens again.
Thermostats generally only stay closed until the engine hits running temp then remain open for the whole trip. Its there to help the engine heat up faster.
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Thermostats generally only stay closed until the engine hits running temp then remain open for the whole trip. Its there to help the engine heat up faster.
88 deg cel
usually.
but obv the temp can get higher.
I think the cooling system in a car ought to get up to, theoretically, the same temp as a computer.
You wouldn't want your car getting much beyond 100-120, as much as you wouldn't want your computer getting much beyond 100-120
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I have spent a lot of time on the internet, visiting sections of it there there are lots of people who watercool their computers. I have done it to mine, twice, so I know a little about this kinda thing.
Temp the water in a loop gets to depends on many factors, but 30-40c would be average from what I have seen.
The whole "does the water heat up" and "does the order of my loop matter" has been covered many times. I am looking for a thread where this was discussed in detail, physiks will blow your head.
brb.
EDIT: This is worth a read. Gives an example of why adding more water to a system has little point. Once the water reaches equilibrium, is stays at that temp and heat is continually removed while its generated.
From http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?196900-Theoretical-Question-on-WC-amp-Multiple-Reservoirs&highlight=44+gallon+drum
It's moot and completely personal preference unless you have some specific need to bleed the air very quickly like for testing purposes where it makes a difference, or if you're going to do something very extreme like the 55 gallondrum thing.
While water does have a very good "Specific Heat" value, it still makes very little difference unless you planned to only load your processor for a few minutes at a time.
Water has a specific heat value of around 4.18 J/g-K.
So if you do the math, that means for 1 liter of water it only takes about 5.8 watts to raise that water temperaute 5 degrees per hour.
So 100 watts will raise the temperature of 1 liter of water 5 degrees in only 3.5minutes. So even if you added another 1 liter reservoir to your loop, your water now takes a whopping 7 minutes to raise. I have about a 1 gallon reservoir in my test system, but it's not for specific heat, it's there to instantly bleed the loop and provide room for water heaters. On that system I find that a good delta like 5 degrees usually takes around 15minutes to reach equilibrium +-, a 10 Degree delta about 30 minutes and a 15 degree delta about 45 minutes. But on any system, you've also got to account for the heat storage in the radiators metals and the reservoir ect, they all absorb heat.
But in the end, I never use my system for 5 or 10 minute sittings, it's always longer than that. So unless you're planning to do the 55gallon drum, I don't see the value in adding more volume to a water cooling setup. A reservoir over a T line, yes if you want fast bleeding or an easier time getting the loop filled up, but after a few days the performance is pretty much the same and to me, it's a personal preference thing.
I run T-lines typically in my system were my loops are to remain long term, and reservoirs where I'm testing and need fast bleeding performance.
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I have spent a lot of time on the internet, visiting sections of it there there are lots of people who watercool their computers. I have done it to mine, twice, so I know a little about this kinda thing.
Temp the water in a loop gets to depends on many factors, but 30-40c would be average from what I have seen.
The whole "does the water heat up" and "does the order of my loop matter" has been covered many times. I am looking for a thread where this was discussed in detail, physiks will blow your head.
A lot of time on the internet? and the phsyics blows your head?
What a waste of time that was.
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Notice the wording, physiks will blow YOUR head. Not mine, YOUR head.
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Notice the wording, physiks will blow YOUR head. Not mine, YOUR head.
As I said, a waste of time.
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[ATTACH=CONFIG]7910[/ATTACH]
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