Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[cobra]

The 'magic of science' LOL. So where did 'the magic of science' come from?

You really are a fucking moron aren't you?

havn't you put me on your ignore list about 6 times?

magic of science - how logic and reason can unlock the mysteries of the universe, pretty magical imo

so can you explain how god magicing up the universe does count as magic? or are you going to continue your strat of ignoring question sand just posting abuse because you have nothing behind your world view except some feelings + ignorance + stupidity

[psyche]

havn't you put me on your ignore list about 6 times?

magic of science - how logic and reason can unlock the mysteries of the universe, pretty magical imo

Logic and reason, lol. Aaaaah yup, that explains everything!

so can you explain how god magicing up the universe does count as magic? or are you going to continue your strat of ignoring question sand just posting abuse because you have nothing behind your world view except some feelings + ignorance + stupidity

I'm not going to get into a debate with any of you any more, I've shared some of my thoughts and I get ridiculed and flamed for it, so fuck you idiots I'm not going to go to the effort of sharing my thoughts if I just treated like a fool for it.

[cobra]

I'm not going to get into a debate with any of you any more, I've shared some of my thoughts and I get ridiculed and flamed for it, so fuck you idiots I'm not going to go to the effort of sharing my thoughts if I just treated like a fool for it.

tbh you get treated like a fool because you are a fool

read fleas post, he explains it well

[psyche]

tbh you get treated like a fool because you are a fool

read fleas post, he explains it well

Ironic coming from someone who thinks 'logic and reason' explains the universe.

[Ngati_Grim]

You're a fucking geologist, you study rocks

Well, we do know how to make the bedrock, so yeah, we are the schist! I love those blind thrusts, but hey, it's not my fault!

You display very little understanding of what a geologist does.

At least I've told you a bit about who I am, to give my comments some context, but when you don't and you consistently resort to personal insult or dubious claims that can't be backed up by evidence, even though we keep asking for it, then I will suffice to say you're an ignorant so and so...but I don't want to step down to your level, because I can smell it from up here...oh what is it? It's the smells of misplaced piety and decayed brain matter...

They're only studying the conditions AFTER the Big Bang, there's absolutely no way they can scientifically explain what happened before the Big Bang or how it happened.

Why is there absolutely no way? Because it might undermine your beliefs? It is a longitudinal study, so we will never know....those in the future just might....you can't say that it's not possible.

That dude Jerry Bergman isn't credible? Funny, he's got shitloads more credibility than you will ever have.

That fella may have credibility, but he loses it when he talks about creationism, because there is no way he can prove it, and he knows that, so he goes about trying to disprove it through 'science', but fails, because if he manipulates the evidence towards creationism (I'd love to see him try this!), then he is not being true to himself as a scientist, whereas if he manipulates the evidence towards the alternative, then he is not being true to himself as a creationist. So, yeah, he is not credible.

Abiogenesis IS impossible anyway you fucking numpty.

Why?
No, really, in your own words, why?
Just because we haven't managed to understand it fully yet?
Fucking numpty? ...cool, I love your reasoning.

Those quotes from scientists were taken out of context? Lol, bullshit, none of them look they are taken out of context to me - that's you just being an arrogant know-it-all prick.

That's just the problem though. You don't appear to have even reached Critical Thinking 101, so nothing looks out of context to you, except for material that can be backed up by observable, testable evidence. It seems that the more absurd it is, the less critical you are of it.
I could write screeds of insults about you, but I'll let you do the talking:

prick...little bitch...you fucking dingbat....you fucking numpty...dickhead....

The Scientists you mentioned in the last post may well have believed in god, but there are also many just as stellar who don't, so I fail to see what point you are making, other than scientists can be religious, and the religious can be scientists. The problem arises when they allow their perceptions from one of the 'non overlapping Magisteria' to enter the other of these Magisteria (that is, Religion and Science). My thanks to S. Gould for the posthumous use of this concept. However, I doubt if he would care, since he wasn't that big on the idea of the afterlife.
You see, there are still a lot of people who seem to have been brainwashed, and when they can't come up with an answer, will go running to the supernatural tree. "It's magick. It must be, because there surely can't be any rational explanation for it could there? It has to be god's work because there is no other explanation"
Maybe we just don't know it all yet, and so are condemned to repeat the mistakes forced on us by superstition.

[psyche]

I think the only who's  been brain-washed is you, you sound like a deluded nutter brainwashed by science

Why?
No, really, in your own words, why?
Just because we haven't managed to understand it fully yet?
Fucking numpty? ...cool, I love your reasoning.

From what I heard the entire study of abiogenesis was scrapped, because the theory was debunked.

That's just the problem though. You don't appear to have even reached Critical Thinking 101

lol, I could say the same about you. You're still stuck thinking science can explain everything. You are DELUDED if you can think science can explain everything.

The Scientists you mentioned in the last post may well have believed in god, but there are also many just as stellar who don't

It seems a LOT of scientists believe in a "higher power" that purposefully constructed the laws of the universe. How can you honestly believe that the very complex laws of nature and the universe came about through random chance? That makes you sound like a fucking crackpot. I can't see any reason to believe or consider anything you say, because you're an absolute nutter, just like every other moron atheist in this thread. Plain and simple.

I am more inclined to believe the knowledgeable words of these scientists and other great minds that I have quoted, that work in the fields of astrobiology, astrophysics, astronomy, cosmology and physics instead of some deluded crackpot geologist that studies rocks.

[Simon_NZ]

Welcome aboard big boy! Been enjoying your posts and have kept quiet, because I really wanted a peaceful weekend. It seems you're/you've been involved with the Earth Sciences?

yeah, just starting my honors in tectonic geomorphology. Glaciers, drainage basins, quaternary geology etc

Ph.D next year. :bounce:

[ThaFleastyler]

tbh you get treated like a fool because you are a fool

read fleas post, he explains it well

Ironic coming from someone who thinks 'logic and reason' explains the universe.

What are you trying to say there, psyche?

These gentlemen have disagreed with you time and again, and you have disregarded their opinions. Now you have descended into full-on ad hominem mode. If I were you, I would watch where I was going with this current line of posting.

[psyche]

What are you trying to say there, psyche?

These gentlemen have disagreed with you time and again, and you have disregarded their opinions. Now you have descended into full-on ad hominem mode. If I were you, I would watch where I was going with this current line of posting.

The only reason they disagree with me time and time again is because they have some kind of problem with me, they can't handle my opinions and thoughts so they choose to call me an idiot, because that's their best argument they can come up with in their small limited capacity of brain power.

I wouldn't have had a problem responding to Ngati's post, but he is quite clearly talking a load of shit now, so I'm not going to bother responding to that crap, it gets too repetitive.

I'm not going anywhere with this line of posting, I've given up with this thread... I'm not going to keep debating with a bunch of inane crackpot idiotic atheists brainwashed by science. All I wanted was a mature discussion where people can hopefully think outside of the box, but it seems that is too much to ask for this forum.

Again, atheists = MORONS. I can't see anything that indicates atheists think about things rationally or in any way that makes sense, they're all just crazy, deluded nutters. That's the only way I can think to put it.

HB btw

[psyche]

What are you trying to say there, psyche?

I'm trying to say he's a fool if he thinks 'logic and reason' explains the existence of the universe, that's what I'm trying to say.

What are you trying to say there, psyche?

These gentlemen have disagreed with you time and again, and you have disregarded their opinions. Now you have descended into full-on ad hominem mode. If I were you, I would watch where I was going with this current line of posting.

I'm not going anywhere with this line of posting, I've given up with this thread... I'm not going to keep debating with a bunch of inane crackpot idiotic atheists brainwashed by science. All I wanted was a mature discussion where people can hopefully think outside of the box, but it seems that is too much to ask for this forum.

I wouldn't have had a problem responding to Ngati's post, but he is quite clearly talking a load of shit now, so I'm not going to bother responding to that crap, it gets too repetitive.

Again, atheists = MORONS. I can't see anything that indicates atheists think about things rationally or in any way that makes sense, they're all just crazy, deluded nutters. That's the only way I can think to put it.

Sir Isaac Netwon put it best:

"This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"

HB btw

[Ngati_Grim]

yeah, just starting my honors in tectonic geomorphology. Glaciers, drainage basins, quaternary geology etc

Ph.D next year. :bounce:

Sweet...good luck, hope you've got good supervisors.
Where are you studying?
Ideas for your Ph.D?...continuing in geomorph?

But you know, we don't have all the answers eh? We are

some deluded crackpot geologist that studies rocks.

and that means we can't see anything else or apply scientific method to it, so you've been warned! :rnr:

I wouldn't have had a problem responding to Ngati's post, but he is quite clearly talking a load of shit now

Why is it shit?
You see, I have looked outside the box, many times...it's part of my 'critical thinking' arsenal. Yet when I apply this method I still come back to Science as the best fit model.
If this makes me brainwashed, then I stand guilty. If this makes me gullible, then I stand guilty.
At least my 'load of shit' can be backed up by rigorous testing. Your load of shit is just that!


And again, Newton!
Look at the world he was living in, at the major paradigms of the day. And turn the quote around and answer it from your perspective. By what reasoning do you reach your conclusion?

[psyche]

Okay, so explain how everything comes from nothing. And just happens to know how to work. EXACTLY. Backed up with your 'rigorous testing'

By what reasoning do I reach my conclusion? Simple. Because unless everything was the result of carefully planned creation, nothing would work properly and we wouldn't even exist.

a) Everything WAS created. This has been proven by the theory of the Big Bang.

b) The laws that the govern universe and nature have very distinct workings that cannot be explained, and will not be able to be explained by science in any way. Without these laws, nothing would work, nothing would exist. How did these laws know to work? It damn sure wasn't a scientific fluke of randomness.

[Ngati_Grim]

Okay, so explain how everything comes from nothing. And just happens to know how to work. EXACTLY.

The point of singularity isn't nothing. It is superdense. energy reacts and intereacts, that's how it 'knows'. It doesn't really know, it just does.

Now, as I have stated before, there are things AT THE MOMENT that we cannot explain sufficiently. But just because we lack the information AT THIS TIME to explain things scientifically, doesn't mean that we should give up the endeavour and go quietly and meekly into supernaturalism: "uuuuh...god gone done it".

You call me arrogant and dogmatically bound. Look in the mirror. No, really, do it, and be honest with yourself. Yes, I am biased towards Science. It has more appeal to me in that it is based on observable fact and provides me with a candle in the darkness.

b) The laws that the govern universe and nature have very distinct workings that cannot be explained, and will not be able to be explained by science in any way. Without these laws, nothing would work, nothing would exist. How did these laws know to work? It damn sure wasn't a scientific fluke of randomness.

How do you know that science will never be able to explain these 'laws'?
How do you know it damn well wasn't a fluke of 'scientific randomness'?

You have no evidence for your creation model. You are just throwing my argument back at me, reworded.

[Simon_NZ]

Sweet...good luck, hope you've got good supervisors.
Where are you studying?
Ideas for your Ph.D?...continuing in geomorph?

yeah, just up in Auckland.

tectonics, orogens, glaciers, and drainage basins, catchment lithology - that kinda stuff.

bridge the gap between landscape and process based disciplines.

[psyche]

The point of singularity isn't nothing. It is superdense. energy reacts and intereacts, that's how it 'knows'. It doesn't really know, it just does.

Now, as I have stated before, there are things AT THE MOMENT that we cannot explain sufficiently. But just because we lack the information AT THIS TIME to explain things scientifically, doesn't mean that we should give up the endeavour and go quietly and meekly into supernaturalism: "uuuuh...god gone done it".

You call me arrogant and dogmatically bound. Look in the mirror. No, really, do it, and be honest with yourself. Yes, I am biased towards Science. It has more appeal to me in that it is based on observable fact and provides me with a candle in the darkness.

lol, do you have any idea how crazy you sound? The point of singularity, I guess you're talking about the primeval atom, it just one day decided to pop out of nothing for no reason? And it just happens to contain the forces of nature: Gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force? 'It doesn't know, it just does'? Doesn't know what? Just does what? No sense make you.

I don't see how you can honestly think that that 'point of singularity' came to exist from nothing. Something wanted the universe to be created, and it wanted it to work effectively. You can't explain that just by 'energy reacting', it makes no sense. It doesn't matter how much science will ever be able to explain, it will never be explain how or why the universe was created. You need to come to this realisation, and then start asking yourself the ultimate questions "Why was the universe created?" instead of How. You will never know HOW the universe came to exist - not in your lifetime, not in anyone's lifetime, the sooner you realize this the sooner you can start appreciating the amazing 'coincidence' of everything.

[Ngati_Grim]

yeah, just up in Auckland.

tectonics, orogens, glaciers, and drainage basins, catchment lithology - that kinda stuff.

bridge the gap between landscape and process based disciplines.

Nice...it's an interesting field to get into. Be careful though, don't pigeonhole yourself with just mainstream geology....you might want to take in a bit of catastrophism and flood geology fro a bit of balance!!:bounce::bounce:

We do a bit of that (not the quackery, but the real deal) at Canterbury, and have some lovely glacial geomorph around here....interesting doing in Auckland, what with all the glacio-volcanic moraines you have, along with the great northland glacier! :disappoin

[psyche]

The point of singularity isn't nothing. It is superdense. energy reacts and intereacts, that's how it 'knows'. It doesn't really know, it just does.

Now, as I have stated before, there are things AT THE MOMENT that we cannot explain sufficiently. But just because we lack the information AT THIS TIME to explain things scientifically, doesn't mean that we should give up the endeavour and go quietly and meekly into supernaturalism: "uuuuh...god gone done it".

You call me arrogant and dogmatically bound. Look in the mirror. No, really, do it, and be honest with yourself. Yes, I am biased towards Science. It has more appeal to me in that it is based on observable fact and provides me with a candle in the darkness.

lol, do you have any idea how crazy you sound? The point of singularity, I guess you're talking about the primeval atom, it just one day decided to pop out of nothing for no reason? And it just happens to contain the forces of nature: Gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force? 'It doesn't know, it just does'? Doesn't know what? Just does what? No sense make you.

I don't see how you can honestly think that that 'point of singularity' came to exist from nothing. Something wanted the universe to be created, and it wanted it to work effectively. You can't explain that just by 'energy reacting', it makes no sense. It doesn't matter how much science will ever be able to explain, it will never be explain how or why the universe was created. You need to come to this realisation, and then start asking yourself the ultimate questions "Why was the universe created?" instead of How. You will never know HOW the universe came to exist - not in your lifetime, not in anyone's lifetime, the sooner you realize this the sooner you can start appreciating the amazing 'coincidence' of everything.

[Ngati_Grim]

lol, do you have any idea how crazy you sound? The point of singularity, I guess you're talking about the primeval atom, it just one day decided to pop out of nothing for no reason?

I realise how crazy I sound to people like you!

And no, I did not mean the 'primeval atom'. I meant that everything was condensed into a superdense 'point of singularity'. Probably just part of an ongoing cycle in the Multiverse. but them I'm crazy, aint I, big fella?

[psyche]

Ah yes, the Multiverse. The multiverse that just happened to come from something, from something, from something, from... nothing.

Well, we will leave it that shall we.

I realise how crazy I sound to people like you!

People like me? You mean unbiased, rational, logical thinking people? I see..

[Simon_NZ]

Nice...it's an interesting field to get into. Be careful though, don't pigeonhole yourself with just mainstream geology....you might want to take in a bit of catastrophism and flood geology fro a bit of balance!!:bounce::bounce:

We do a bit of that (not the quackery, but the real deal) at Canterbury, and have some lovely glacial geomorph around here....interesting doing in Auckland, what with all the glacio-volcanic moraines you have, along with the great northland glacier! :disappoin

I spend a lot of my own time down in the South Island, just recently I got from 10days in Arthur's Pass, planning a trip to the Ivory Glacier as we speak..

More than likely I will transfer for my Ph.D

[Ngati_Grim]

Ah yes, the Multiverse. The multiverse that just happened to come from something, from something, from something, from... nothing.

Well, we will leave it that shall we.

No, let's not. It is an interesting concept to explore. There are many ways of looking at it. One can approach it from a fundamentalist, creationism camp, and then there is really no room to argue, because it is the be all and end all and was there forever, before time, and after time, yet presents no evidence beyond dubiously constructed pseudo-scientific rationales tied up in religiosity and faith, and you either got it or you aint got it, but if you aint got it you won't get it, get it?
Or you can apply testable hypotheses and attempt to come up with a rationale, intelligent, working answer that can be moulded by new knowledge (or wholly revised) and is open to all, whether they got it or they aint.
Or you can try to mould the two together and end up like Rudolf Steiner :chuckle:
Or you can look at it and wonder....just don't let the wonder get in the way of reality.
But that's just my reality.

[psyche]

Multiverses have been hypothesized in cosmology, physics, astronomy, philosophy, theology, and fiction, particularly in science fiction and fantasy.

The specific term "multiverse," which was coined by William James, was popularized by science fiction author Michael Moorcock.

I am more inclined to believe the knowledgeable words of these scientists and other great minds that I have quoted, that work in the fields of astrobiology, astrophysics, astronomy, cosmology and physics instead of some deluded crackpot atheist geologist brainwashed by Darwinism and Dawkinism (Dorkinism?)

I have as much reason to go off and believe those Scientology crackpots than believe in or give any credibility to 'multiverses' - now I am convinced you are talking a load of shit. Someone's been watching too much Stargate or something I think...

[Simon_NZ]

You do that and live your life in ignorence you pillock.

Infact, after reading all your posts that is the only conclusion I can draw - you're simply not intectually equiped to deal with science.

[psyche]

You do that and live your life in ignorence you pillock.

Infact, after reading all your posts that is the only conclusion I can draw - you're simply not intectually equiped to deal with science.

intectually? I'm not intectually equipped?

[Retardobot]

Haha.

pysche, ev....Nah, there is nothing i can say to you because you just snub your nose up at EVERYTHING and continue to make your own theories.

What do you do for a living and what are your qualifications ? Just out of curiosity.