Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Tiwaking!]

Music + Madness = Religion![/video]

Ages ago there was an Atheist Gangster Rap Challenge. azrienoch won, but I had no idea that he had to take down his video due to copyright claims.

Welcome to an Atheist Paradise!

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1209494/atheists_paradise/

[Tiwaking!]

the majority of people here do too.  but fighting over who is rigth and who is wrong isnt going to get teh mysteries of the universe solved any faster.  unless you do soem scientific work or Search for God through prayer and study.

Oh dears.

[Retardobot]

but fighting over who is rigth and who is wrong isnt going to get teh mysteries of the universe solved any faster.

Actually, it will. It's through scientific discussion, the presentation of evidence and peer reviews that helps unravel scientific authorities.

[dirtyape]

Science is limited by a requirement to observe. As such it will never really be able to describe things completely. For all we know this universe could have been sneezed from the nose of a pan-dimensional space cat, off course if it doesn't affect the internal operations of this universe in any way we can safely ignore it. So really you could say god exists if you want to. Just don't try and say that it influences events in the universe.

[Tiwaking!]

I wanna be the very best.
Like no one ever was!

[Dr Woomanchu]

[video=vimeo;25149893]http://vimeo.com/25149893[/video]

[Kayne]

[video=vimeo;25149893]http://vimeo.com/25149893[/video]

Look up

[Dr Woomanchu]

poos how did i miss that one

[Tiwaking!]

Take THAT happy claps!

[Tiwaking!]

Should a Christian Play Dungeons & Dragons?

http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp

"But It's Only a Game!"

Defenders of D&D often complain that it is only a game. Playing chicken with cars is "only a game" until someone gets killed. So is Russian roulette! I am frequently told to "get a life" or write about something more important than D&D, like social justice or world hunger. The devil would sure like that.

Additionally, I would want to know: where young Mr. Pulling acquired his concept of "lycanthropic tendencies?" Where did he get his ideas about Hitler? Both are discussed in the D&D material. Lycanthropy is the clinical term for being (or believing yourself to be) a werewolf. It is not a word commonly used in high school badinage, at least not back then. Probably few secondary school teachers would even know the meaning of the word. However, the occult milieu of D&D is rife with such concepts. This is an excellent example, provided by Freeman himself, of the kind of occult defilement that can occur from being exposed to the D&D material.

D&D player (14 years old) Tom Sullivan, Jr. got into Satanism and ended up stabbing his mother to death, arranging a ritual circle (from D&D) in the middle of the living room floor and lit a fire in its midst. Fortunately, his dad and little brother were awakened by a smoke detector; but by then, Tom, Jr. had slashed his wrists and throat with his Boy Scout knife and died in the snow in a neighbor's yard. (1/19/88, Amarillo, TX).

This is not just chess, football or bridge. This is a game that envelops the player in an entirely different fantasy world in which the power of magic and violence is pervasive. It is a game with a distinct and seductive spiritual worldview that is diametrically opposed to the Bible. Yes, sorcery appears in the Bible. But it is NEVER in the context of a good thing to do. It is always presented as something dangerous and utterly contrary to the will of God.

[Dr Woomanchu]

[SteddieEddie]

[h=2]Why we are heathens[/h]It has long been recognised that the term "atheist" has unhelpful connotations. It has too many dark associations and also defines itself negatively, against what it opposes, not what it stands for. "Humanist" is one alternative, but humanists are a subset of atheists who have a formal organisation and set of beliefs many atheists do not share. Whatever the intentions of those who adopt the labels, "rationalist" and "bright" both suffer from sounding too self-satisfied, too confident, implying that others are irrationalists or dim.
If we want an alternative, we should look to other groups who have reclaimed mocking nicknames, such as gays, Methodists and Quakers. We need a name that shows that we do not think too highly of ourselves. This is no trivial point: atheism faces the human condition with honesty, and that requires acknowledging our absurdity, weakness and stupidity, not just our capacity for creativity, intelligence, love and compassion. "Heathen" fulfils this ambition. We are heathens because we have not been saved by God and because in the absence of divine revelation, we are in so many ways deeply unenlightened. The main difference between us and the religious is that we know this to be true of all of us, but they believe it is not true of them.
[h=2]2 Heathens are naturalists[/h]Heathens are not merely unbelievers: we believe many things too. Most importantly, we believe in naturalism: the natural world is all there is and there is no purposive, conscious agency that created or guides it. This natural world may contain many mysteries and even unseen dimensions, but we have no reason to believe that they are anything like the heavens, spirit worlds and deities that have characterised supernatural religious beliefs over history. Many religious believers deny the "supernatural" label, but unless they are willing to disavow such beliefs as in the reality of a divine person, miracles, resurrections or life after death, they are not naturalists.
[h=2]3 Our first commitment is to the truth[/h]Although we believe many things about what does and does not exist, these are the conclusions we come to, not the basis of our worldview. That basis is a commitment to see the world as truthfully as we can, using our rational faculties as best we can, based on the best evidence we have. That is where our primary commitment lies, not the conclusions we reach. Hence we are prepared to accept the possibility that we are wrong. It also means that we respect and have much in common with people who come to very different conclusions but have an equal respect for truth, reason and evidence. A heathen has more in common with a sincere, rational, religious truth-seeker than an atheist whose lack of belief is unquestioned, or has become unquestionable.
[h=2]4 We respect science, not scientism[/h]Heathens place science in high regard, being the most successful means humans have devised to come to a true understanding of the real nature of the world on the basis of reason and evidence. If a belief conflicts with science, then no matter how much we cherish it, science should prevail. That is why the religious beliefs we most oppose are those that defy scientific knowledge, such as young earth creationism.
Nonetheless, this does not make us scientistic. Scientism is the belief that science provides the only means of gaining true knowledge of the world, and that everything has to be understood through the lens of science or not at all. There are scientistic atheists but heathens are not among them. Science is limited in what it can contribute to our understanding of who we are and how we should live because many of the most important facts of human life only emerge at a level of description on which science remains silent. History, for example, may ultimately depend on nothing more than the movements of atoms, but you cannot understand the battle of Hastings by examining interactions of fermions and bosons. Love may depend on nothing more than the physical firing of neurons, but anyone who tries to understand it solely in those terms just does not know what love means.
Science may also make life uncomfortable for us. For example, it may undermine certain beliefs about free will that many atheists have relied on to give dignity and autonomy to our species.
Heathens are therefore properly respectful of science but also mindful of its limits. Science is not our Bible: the last word on everything.
[h=2]5 We value reason as precious but fragile[/h]Heathens have a commitment to reason that fully acknowledges the limits of reason. Reason is itself a multi-faceted thing that cannot be reduced to pure logic. We use reason whenever we try to form true beliefs on the basis of the clearest thinking, using the best evidence. But reason almost always leaves us short of certain knowledge and very often leaves us with a need to make a judgment in order to come to a conclusion. We also need to accept that human beings are very imperfect users of reason, susceptible to biases, distortions and prejudices that lead even the most intelligent astray. In short, if we understand what reason is and how it works, we have very good reason to doubt those who claim rationality solely for those who accept their worldview and who deny the rationality of those who disagree.
[h=2]6 We are convinced, not dogmatic[/h]The heathen's modesty about the power of reason and the certainty of her conclusions should not be mistaken for a shoulder-shrugging agnosticism. We have a very high degree of confidence in the truth of our naturalistic worldview. But we do not dogmatically assert it. Being open to being wrong and to changing our minds does not mean we lack conviction that we are right. Strength of belief is not the same as rigidity of dogma.
[h=2]7 We have no illusions about life as a heathen[/h]Many people do not understand that it is possible to lead a meaningful, happy life as a heathen, but we maintain that it is and can point to any number of atheist philosophers and thinkers who have explained why this is so. But such meaning and contentment does not inevitably follow from becoming a heathen. Ours is a universe without guarantees of redemption or salvation and sometimes people have terrible lives or do terrible things and thrive. On such occasions, we have no consolation. That is the dark side of accepting the truth, and we are prepared to acknowledge it. We are heathens because we value living in the truth. But that does not mean that we pretend that always makes life easy or us happy. If the evidence were to show that religious people are happier and healthier than us, we would not see that as any reason to give up our convictions.
[h=2]8 We are secularists[/h]We support a state that is neutral as regards people's fundamental worldviews. It is not neutral when it comes to the shared values necessary for people of different conviction to live and thrive together. But it should not give any special privilege to any particular sect or group, or use their creeds as a basis for policy. Politics requires a coming together of people of different fundamental convictions to formulate and justify policy in terms that all understand, on the basis of principles that as many as possible can share.
This secularism does not require that religion is banished from public life or that people may not be open as to how their faiths, or lack of one, motivate their values. As long as the core of the business of state is neutral as regards to comprehensive worldviews, we can be relaxed about expressions of these commitments in society at large. We want to maintain the state's neutrality on fundamental worldviews, not purge religion from society.
[h=2]9 Heathens can be religious[/h]There are a small minority of forms of religion that are entirely compatible with the heathen position. These are forms of religion that reject the real existence of supernatural entities and divinely authored texts, accept that science trumps dogma, and who see the essential core of religion in its values and practices. We have very little evidence that anything more than a small fraction of actual existent religion is like this, but when it does conform to this description, heathens have no reason to dismiss it as false.
[h=2]10 Religion is often our friend[/h]We believe in not being tone-deaf to religion and to understand it in the most charitable way possible. So we support religions when they work to promote values we share, including those of social justice and compassion. We are respectful and sympathetic to the religious when they arrive at their different conclusions on the basis of the same commitment to sincere, rational, undogmatic inquiry as us, without in any way denying that we believe them to be false and misguided. We are also sympathetic to religion when its effects are more benign than malign. We appreciate that commitment to truth is but one value and that a commitment to compassion and kindness to others is also of supreme importance. We are not prepared to insist that it is indubitably better to live guided by such values allied with false beliefs than it is to live without such values but also without false belief.
[h=2]11 We are critical of religion when necessary[/h]Our willingness to accept what is good in religion is balanced by an equally honest commitment to be critical of it when necessary. We object when religion invokes mystery to avoid difficult questions or to obfuscate when clarity is needed. We do not like the way in which "people of faith" tend to huddle together in an unprincipled coalition of self-interest, even when that means liberals getting into bed with homophobes and misogynists. We think it is disingenuous for religious people to talk about the reasonableness of their beliefs and the importance of values and practice, while drawing a veil over their embrace of superstitious beliefs. In these and other areas, we assert the right and need to make civil but acute criticisms.
And although our general stance is not one of hostility towards religion, there are some occasions when this is exactly what is called for. When religions promote prejudice, division or discrimination, suppress truth or stand in the way of medical or social progress, a hostile response is an appropriate, principled one, just as it is when atheists are guilty of the same crimes.
[h=2]12 This manifesto is less concerned with distinguishing heathens from others than forging links between us and others[/h]Our commitment to independent thought and the provisionality of belief means that few heathens are likely to agree completely with this manifesto. It is therefore almost a precondition of supporting it that you do not entirely support it. At the same time, although very few people of faith can be heathens, many will find themselves in agreement with much of what heathens belief. This is what provides the common ground to make fruitful dialogue possible: we need to accept what we share in order to accept with civility and understanding what we most certainly do not. This is what the heathen manifesto is really about.

[swindle]

Sam Harris, is a boss.

http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/en/sam_harris_science_can_show_what_s_right.html

Have started reading his books.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

oh hai guize didnt realise you were talking about what i've been posting.  How are you guys?  did daylight savings ruin you?   man im so tired today.   haha i ended up going to church 2 hours late =_=

set my clock an hour back, then my phone set the clock back 1 hour automatically again at 3am =_=

[Retardobot]

oh hai guize didnt realise you were talking about what i've been posting.  How are you guys?  did daylight savings ruin you?   man im so tired today.   haha i ended up going to church 2 hours late =_=

set my clock an hour back, then my phone set the clock back 1 hour automatically again at 3am =_=

Cool story, bro.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

i thought so!  Caught me off guard.  LOL retardo you're always grumpy  

I'm sitting back with a coffee looking at old posts and i see a lot of the posts are great stories too.  Bro.     It's the same thing over and over and over again.

AFRODIZZZZZZZZZZYYYYYYYYYY!!!  i message you on steam gangsta and you never reply!  

Oh dears.

Lovin these bro!  hahaha shared them on FB  

Second one was interesting  When my mum and dad had cancer i saw God working all the time.  Mum was fighting bone cancer for around 7 years.  God really blessed us with all the right people.  And because mum was working for the hospital all her friends we able to fast track tests and rearrange her appointments to help out.  God blessed her with soooooo many good friends to help and support her.  WIth ym dad when he went into hospital on Christmas day, again i could see the Lord working here in terms of the help that was coming at him.  Also everytime he'd have a seizure i'd pray that it would stop in Jesus name and it would instantly.  

Ofcourse i've shared this with you guys before     One big merry go round

[Retardobot]

Second one was interesting  When my mum and dad had cancer i saw God working all the time.  Mum was fighting bone cancer for around 7 years.  God really blessed us with all the right people.  And because mum was working for the hospital all her friends we able to fast track tests and rearrange her appointments to help out.  God blessed her with soooooo many good friends to help and support her.  WIth ym dad when he went into hospital on Christmas day, again i could see the Lord working here in terms of the help that was coming at him.  Also everytime he'd have a seizure i'd pray that it would stop in Jesus name and it would instantly.

That's highlighting some pretty horrific favouritism found in your local health system, and religion.

[Who_ate_my_rice]

oh yes!  Its awesome isnt it?  And to think you could have this too XD  in every aspects of your life other than just the health system

And its not just in the health system but every part of my day =D

[Retardobot]

No thanks.

I'll continue praising science and donating money towards Save the Children. You know, those children who your God seems to forget about.

[Zarkov]

I hope god doesn't give me bone cancer or a seizure.

[Retardobot]

I hope god doesn't give me bone cancer or a seizure.

Nah, he'll give you cancer, then somehow make you feel blessed for having choice friends!

[dirtyape]

oh yes!  Its awesome isnt it?  And to think you could have this too XD  in every aspects of your life other than just the health system

If everyone had it then wouldn't you have to queue for results again?

[Who_ate_my_rice]

No thanks.

I'll continue praising science and donating money towards Save the Children. You know, those children who your God seems to forget about.

its great you hold to Christian values!  Not only does he want to save the Children but he wants to save you   Its great you're supporting an organisation that was set up by a Christian   God is Good!!

I hope god doesn't give me bone cancer or a seizure.

I hope NO ONE gets that.  Sickness doesn't come from him.  Its the sin of man who brought sickness.   Gods intention was that no one ever got sick.

If everyone had it then wouldn't you have to queue for results again?

hahaha  what perks do you get from your job?   Is there anything you benefit from the job you do?

[Virus.]

its great you hold to Christian values!  Not only does he want to save the Children but he wants to save you   Its great you're supporting an organisation that was set up by a Christian   God is Good!!

Surely having a value that is similar to the ones taught by Christianity does not make someone trying to uphold Christian values. In fact, nor does supporting something made by a Christian. They are trying to uphold their own values. To actually differentiate an organisation based on the religion of who made it and accusing someone who supports it of then supporting the religion is ludicrous.

[Black Heart]

I hope NO ONE gets that.  Sickness doesn't come from him.  Its the sin of man who brought sickness.   Gods intention was that no one ever got sick.

God must be a stupid fuck then, because theres not a human on earth that hasn't been or wont get sick. Also sickeness is treated by medicine, why did you need to get your mums results at all? Should have just kept praying, if you don't think medicine worked and it was god.