Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[Ngati_Grim]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[video]zDHJ4ztnldQ[/video]

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

Religion. The evolution, creation and everything in between megathread

[nzr_hotsexgary]

stoking the flames i see

the video is quite good though, in b4 the diehards who say "i watched the movie, and it really challenged my faith" etc etc who actually looked at the first few minutes and then gave up because they can't handle facts

[Ngati_Grim]

Please try and watch this...click on the 'watch on youtube' link.

Or direct link:

[brucewillis2]

watched the video and although interesting I enjoyed one of the comments.

"Im deeply against religion because i think it keeps us from succeeding as a race"

[AfroDizzzy]

I wonder how Buddhism keeps us back though. Alot of this thread has being focused around Christianity and Islam which doesnt give us a very good view of the whole religious picture.

[Spoonguard]

I wonder how Buddhism keeps us back though. Alot of this thread has being focused around Christianity and Islam which doesnt give us a very good view of the whole religious picture.

Why do so many suffer unjustly in this world and how can those who claim divine right to rule it justify the continuation of the oppression and poverty they enforce to maintain their lifestyle? It depends on what you believe in, apparently:

In Judaism it's because only Israel and Israelites are favored by God.

In Christianity, it doesn't matter because the modest and impoverished are favored in the afterlife.

In Islam it's because you don't adhere closely enough to The Five Pillars or something.

In Buddhism it's because in a previous reincarnation you had not lived virtuously enough, but not to the point where you would be reincarnated as sharkbait or whatever. Plus life is a sufferethon for everyone anyway, even for those in the well fed, lightly worked priest caste. Especially the priest caste.

Whatever the religion, the hierophants will always find a justification for maintaining the unjust society which enables them to be the oppressor.

[Nostargate]

forum religion....^^^ oppressor

[Spoonguard]

That maybe true, but I allow a birdhat to eternally rape my head so your trespasses maybe forgiven. If you continue to indulge in vice, the divine powers may be forced to initiate a extermination program of all feral mammals. No Catatar would be spared for any reason, Death to all pests.

[Tiwaking!]

I wonder how Buddhism keeps us back though

How does Buddhism keep us back?

In short: Buddhism promotes the sitting in temples, impoverished, studying ancient writings. This is not progress and is one of the reasons why Buddhist nations such as Bhutan are not Global Superpowers

In tl;dr

Spoiler :

Buddhism in its purist form (a big UP-YOURS to Hinduism) pretty much died as soon as Gautama died for although he left the mechanisms to which enlightenment could be attained, he didnt leave any proper instructions. In fact, most schools of Buddhist thought run contrary to the very formation of Buddhism proper.

Thusly, when he died his disciples and teachings were diversely interpreted. Ideas such as:

Karma as a form of currency - Doing good produces karma

Escape from the wheel of dharma is the goal - There is a last reincarnation

Doing is being - Acting like the Buddha makes you the Buddha


As you can see, this would easily cause confusion

Why do so many suffer unjustly in this world and how can those who claim divine right to rule it justify the continuation of the oppression and poverty they enforce to maintain their lifestyle? It depends on what you believe in, apparently:

In Judaism it's because only Israel and Israelites are favored by God.

In Christianity, it doesn't matter because the modest and impoverished are favored in the afterlife.

In Islam it's because you don't adhere closely enough to The Five Pillars or something.

In Buddhism it's because in a previous reincarnation you had not lived virtuously enough, but not to the point where you would be reincarnated as sharkbait or whatever. Plus life is a sufferethon for everyone anyway, even for those in the well fed, lightly worked priest caste. Especially the priest caste.

Whatever the religion, the hierophants will always find a justification for maintaining the unjust society which enables them to be the oppressor.

Spoonguard: +rep, You raise an interesting and oft-overlooked connection between major religions. That is:

HOW is my religion to rule the world? ergo 'What mechanism will occur to generate total religious world rule?

Judaism has the Messiah
Christianity has the Rapture
Islam has the Global Jihad (Im using the non-war meaning of 'jihadi' here)
Buddhism inherits Kali Yuga from its Hinduistic roots here since fully-enlightened returns are too rare to become a global phenomenon

[Tiwaking!]

Ok guys, time for me to ask a serious question:
Without getting into bashing any particular religions or faiths - just referring plainly to believing in the existence of God - what are your thoughts on Pascal's Wager?

Pascals Wager was dealt with much earlier in the thread. In fact: You and I have wrangled over this before

As Bruce says in Bruce Almighty: 'How do you make someone love you without affecting Free Will?" If God were to send down a book by some kind of miraculous means, there would be no denying that He existed, thus it would be affecting free will. God wants us to have Him as part of our lives, He doesn't want to force us into it (even though some religions would have you believe that).

To which the reply was:

Pascals Wager: Because you can only gain from believing in God, then you should believe in God. This is of course horribly false in that you believe only because it ultimately BENEFITS yourself to believe which is contrary to the Catholic ideal of Perfect Contrition

Here are other related posts
Psych vs Me: Pascals Wager
philo-sofa using Pascals Wager 'ish argument
My overall take on Pascals Wager is this:
If one religion offers me something at a price and another religion offers me something for nothing, but will hand out extra if you pay for it, then those religions are best. Given that free religions exist, Pascals Wager falls down.

Notable free religion cases: Judaism, Mormonism.

Or, in a more amusing summary:

No real surprises there. Catholic Church says you are going to hell. You disagree. Since there over one thousand MILLION Catholics and only one of you, I'd bet my money on the Catholic Church

no you wouldn't because you don't believe

Given a choice between the option of Catholicism and Evangelical Christianity, I would bet money on Catholicism

The fact that neither horse turns up to the race is irrelevant

[Iblis]

Ok guys, time for me to ask a serious question:
Without getting into bashing any particular religions or faiths - just referring plainly to believing in the existence of God - what are your thoughts on Pascal's Wager?


Link at Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

Simplified, it might read like this:


I'm interested purely in knowing your own thoughts on this argument. I came across it today, incidentally as an exercise about dissecting argument from my Critical Thinking textbook.

Pascal's Wager is a load of crap and should be obvious to an enlightened brain. It assumes that this omniscient, omnipotent god hinges its entire decision of your eternal fate based upon whether or not you believed in it. Why would such a powerful, supposedly benign entity decide whether or not you suffer eternally on what is of such trivial consequence to its own ends? Maybe god isn't omnipotent. Maybe it loses power based on how many people don't believe in it and therefore must take such a selfish, emotional stake on whether us petty humans believe in it despite the absurd, misguided claims of our peers. Yep, the logic behind that one is rock solid and undermines atheism at its core.

[ThaFleastyler]

I thought this was awesome

[varkk]

http://www.nogod.org.nz/

They are seeking donations to run the "There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life" ads on busses here. Would be great to see that happen, if only to have Bishop Brian whine about it on the news.

[robbyx]

OSHO rocks my socks...

[video]hhjOnYbKJJw[/video]

[ThaFleastyler]

http://www.nogod.org.nz/

They are seeking donations to run the "There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life" ads on busses here. Would be great to see that happen, if only to have Bishop Brian whine about it on the news.

On the one hand this bothers me.

Doing this "only to have Bishop Brian whine about it on the news" seems to me to be a bit petty.

Also, I'm not sure that the back of a bus is the kind of place to be advertising any kind of definitive spiritual statement; whether you believe me or not, I would have the same problem with claiming God was real on the back of a bus. Why not just stick to tampon ads?!

Not only that, but the idea of a god, any god, brings hope to a lot of people; is it really necessary to take away or undermine that hope just because some self-righteous, thinks-hes-right know-it-all git can afford a bus ad?



On the other hand, freedom of speech etc.

[Zarkov]

If people stopped believing in fate/god/heaven, and thought this was the only life they're going to get, maybe they'd get on and

fix some of the things that are wrong in THIS world.

[Ngati_Grim]

Not only that, but the idea of a god, any god, brings hope to a lot of people; is it really necessary to take away or undermine that hope just because some self-righteous, thinks-hes-right know-it-all git can afford a bus ad?

Yes, yes it is.

I'll have to wait until the weekend to get into the details, but again, yes.

[KiLL3r]

If people stopped believing in fate/god/heaven, and thought this was the only life they're going to get, maybe they'd get on and

fix some of the things that are wrong in THIS world.

exactly, why bother trying in this world when all i have to do is believe in god and i will get everlasting life in paradise.

which leads to the next issue. If heaven is such a great place why dont christians just kill themselves? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world when paradise is one high cliff away?

[Scunner]

exactly, why bother trying in this world when all i have to do is believe in god and i will get everlasting life in paradise.

which leads to the next issue. If heaven is such a great place why dont christians just kill themselves? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world when paradise is one high cliff away?

Because it says in the Bible that it's a big no no, so if they did, they wouldn't be able to go to heaven anyway.

[Tiwaking!]

Not only that, but the idea of a God, any God, brings hope to a lot of people; is it really necessary to take away or undermine that hope

Nietzche answered this question in his 1891 book "Thus Spoke Zarathrustra"

 "And what doeth the saint in the forest?" asked Zarathustra.

  The saint answered: "I make hymns and sing them; and in making hymns I laugh and weep and mumble: thus do I praise God.   With singing, weeping, laughing, and mumbling do I praise the God who is my God. But what dost thou bring us as a gift?"

  When Zarathustra had heard these words, he bowed to the saint and said: "What should I have to give thee! Let me rather hurry hence lest I take aught away from thee!"- And thus they parted from one another, the old man and Zarathustra, laughing like schoolboys.

  When Zarathustra was alone, however, he said to his heart: "Could it be possible! This old saint in the forest hath not yet heard of it, that God is dead!"

Also, I'm not sure that the back of a bus is the kind of place to be advertising any kind of definitive spiritual statement

Given the lack of attention Church Doors get these days, the back of a bus is as good a place as any.

Not only that, but the idea of a god, any god, brings hope to a lot of people; is it really necessary to take away or undermine that hope just because some self-righteous, thinks-hes-right know-it-all git can afford a bus ad?

If someones hope is undermined by a advertisement posted on the back of a bus then I think they may have bigger problems than first expected

[KiLL3r]

Because it says in the Bible that it's a big no no, so if they did, they wouldn't be able to go to heaven anyway.

where does it say this?

[AfroDizzzy]

Freaking bible is like a porno mag tbh. I read a verse that mentions a whore... and how the men used to ejaculate into/on her. I was wtfing. Why isnt the bible R18-.-

[Apostrophe Spacemonkey]

which leads to the next issue. If heaven is such a great place why dont christians just kill themselves? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world when paradise is one high cliff away?

Why don't you just kill yourself? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world?

Just because someone decides to believe in an afterlife doesn't mean they automaticly have to hate the life they have now.

[AintNoMeInTeam]

which leads to the next issue. If heaven is such a great place why dont christians just kill themselves? Why bother hanging around on this crumbling world when paradise is one high cliff away?

it used to be a problem... suicide didnt used to be a sin, the peasants thought "well things are crappy here, but when i die i go to paradise" so they went and killed themselves. The nobles and the clergy werent too pleased about having their sheep kill themselves, so voila, suicide becomes a sin and people stop killing themselves because they wont go to paradise.

[ThaFleastyler]

If someones hope is undermined by a advertisement posted on the back of a bus then I think they may have bigger problems than first expected

Touche.