Death Cab for Cutie - "I Will Follow You Into The Dark"

i think quarks are the most important thing in the universe.

I ask this completely separately from the discussion, because I'm interested:
Why do you think this? (assuming you were serious) Quarks are pretty awesome, no doubt. I just wonder why you think they're the most important thing in the universe.

Also, to imply that people who do not believe the universe was created solely for us of having low opinion of themselves is fucking ridiculous. Seriously.

That was not my intention at all - my apologies.

That said, regardless of the creation of the universe, religious beliefs (of any kind) do seem to instill in their believers a certain sense of purpose or meaning to life. Without purpose, life can seem futile.

Hot Chip - Over and Over

Just an awesomely catchy track with a decent video clip.
Hot Chip are pretty entertaining live too.

Missy Elliot - Work It

No one else has her sound in hip-hop. Not really 'block party/club' nor 'cypher, street corner' hip-hop but has elements of both

You mean, aside from her producer, Timbaland?

The Kinks - "Lola" ... as I beat off.

Dear favourite band, see, I would of bought your album if there was a digital download for it or the CD copy for US$10, but good luck getting it in NZ so soz I had to 'arrrrggh' your latest EP. Sorry fav. band. Would <3 a CD of it though.

You can buy it at Manna Christian Stores, I believe (or at least they could order it in).
They do NZ distribution for Tooth & Nail Records, Mae's label.

For some reason:
Aerosmith - "Crazy"

Paying for 'indulgences' has a long history.

Theological Consumerism is not a new thing, as highlighted by Grim's droll post

I can appreciate what you guys are saying.
But this goes beyond paying for indulgences.

For example, one of the things that bugs me most about my church is this: week after week we are reminded of the financial needs of the church itself and an opportunity is given to donate to the church during an 'offering'; more than that, preachers talk about how generosity is good and how giving God command of our finances is something we have to do, since money is one of the main things that can cause us to be selfish and inward people (or as rap group NASA sing, "Money / Money / Money / Money / Money / Money / Money is the root of all evil").

Here's where it gets screwed up, because after training the congregation to think the generosity is required of them and that giving to "God's good work" is the best way to spend a buck or two, that same church produces CDs of the preachers messages to sell after the service; they invite WorldVision and other charities to setup a table at the back and ask for help, and sometimes even address the people; they setup mini book and music shops in their churches, usually at their information or reception areas; they invite businesses to lineup with them for events, giving them a place to advertise and sell their goods and services ... and so on.

Now, I'm under no illusions in terms of the "brainwashing" ability of the church - so knowing that, how is this behaviour of suggesting that "generosity and giving are good", then giving people an opportunity to do just that good? And what kind of blame can be put on these people that are knowingly preying on a group of people who've just been convinced that generosity and giving are good?

The shepherd is protecting the herd, but leaving the gate open for the wolf ... metaphorically speaking.

Nine Inch Nails - "The Hand That Feeds"

If you were brought up different, or your brain was constructed alittle differently, you would think differently.

And since you make decisions with your brain, then what you are thinking right now is determined by something outside of your control.

This made me go cross-eyed

The idea of free will is intriguing - it amazes me that, all factual evidence or spiritual ideas aside, we all still feel like we exercise free will, whether we do or not. Almost like some kind of heuristic (I think thats the term) or something.

There is no science behind these ideas, it is lies formulated to muddy the waters and distract people from the very real facts and evidence behind evolution.

See, I don't get this. You act like religious folks are the only people who disagree with evolution - in fact, isn't it fair to say that among atheistic, non-believing scientists there is still disagreement on whether evolution was the beginning of life?

Heck, even Dawkins admits that there is a chance of creation by higher intelligence - in the movie "Expelled", he is directly quoted as saying "I suppose it's possible that you might find evidence for that if you look at the um, at the detail... details of our chemistry molecular biology you might find a signature of some sort of designer ... Um, and that designer could well be a higher intelligence from elsewhere in the universe. But that higher intelligence would itself would have to come about by some explicable or ultimately explicable process. It couldn't have just jumped into existence spontaneously. That's the point."

As the film-makers point out, it sounds like he isn't against design, just certain types of designer - say, god(s).

ignorant christian propaganda.....

... But i bet it is a great idea for people with a superstitious agenda ...

... if i had an anti-evolution church ...

Hey man, I asked for your thoughts on the science behind the idea, not your thoughts on the church at large or their willingness to spread "propaganda" (which, by the way, some consider a theory). I'm just getting a bit tired of constantly being met with a back-handed dismissal of anything I ask about - its not like I'm trying to preach at you or anything; I'm just asking for thoughts. Thanks for trying though.

Actually, here's a slightly unrelated question, if I could be forgiven a slight digression: Michael Behe, one of the major proponents of the idea, holds qualifications in biochemistry (B.Sc in Chemistry, PhD in Biochemistry) - do you consider his qualifications valid? Or does his personal beliefs or perspective affect the validity of his qualifications?

Just curious..
(and shamelessly trying to change the topic to something more interesting than the usual evolution debate)

Please read the thread topic. This thread was set up explicitly to discuss the evolution debate. Maybe you could setup another thread to discuss metaphors, since its probably a topic that extends beyond just religion?